Record Cleaning Machines

audioblazer · Jun 3, 2010

My 1st RCM was Nitty Gritty . Really noisy and broke down ( some part melting) after cleaning abt 50LPs and at no time I clean more than 5LPs because motor become real hot. Next I bought a VPI 17F which is much quieter but its doesnt clean as well occasionally leaving fibres/dust where the suction tube rest. With Walker Prelude 4 steps cleaning solution its a real pain and time consuming to clean LPs when it take 7-8 min just to clean 1 LP. Off course if you have precious LP collection, Loricraft maybe a great idea. However, I like Mike logic. If we can clean and listen to music at the same time , we would take more effort to clean our LP. Now I hardly clean my LP unless its real annoy sounding and noisy. Ultimate , audio desk RCM may be a good compromise
Happy listening

Albertporter · Jun 3, 2010

MylesBAstor said:
Thanks for the comments on the AudioDeske! That machine caught my eye too! Tried more than life itself to get one from Robert at CES-but he said he was back ordered and wasn't interested in a review at the moment.

Myles,

I bought the Odyssey maybe three years ago, the Audio Desk late 2008.

The Odyssey is the best cleaning machine I know of but as Mike Lavigne pointed out, I find myself using the Audio Desk most of the time. It's cleaned more LPs this past two months than two years with the Odyssey.

Attached are some photos, the first is the Audio Desk, the remainder are the advertising shots I did for Odyssey and the importer (Axiss) that's how I got turned on to it so early.

MylesBAstor · Jun 4, 2010

audioblazer said:
My 1st RCM was Nitty Gritty . Really noisy and broke down ( some part melting) after cleaning abt 50LPs and at no time I clean more than 5LPs because motor become real hot. Next I bought a VPI 17F which is much quieter but its doesnt clean as well occasionally leaving fibres/dust where the suction tube rest. With Walker Prelude 4 steps cleaning solution its a real pain and time consuming to clean LPs when it take 7-8 min just to clean 1 LP. Off course if you have precious LP collection, Loricraft maybe a great idea. However, I like Mike logic. If we can clean and listen to music at the same time , we would take more effort to clean our LP. Now I hardly clean my LP unless its real annoy sounding and noisy. Ultimate , audio desk RCM may be a good compromise
Happy listening

Might I suggest the vacuum tube is not properly aligned and there's too much space between the LP and the suction device? I've had that issue before. I suggest emailing or calling VPI because there's no way anything should be left on the LP after cleaning.

audioblazer · Jun 4, 2010

Myles,
How do u realign the vacuum suction tube? Yes, I don't feel it clear as well unless I have diff vacuum suction tube for different steps and the fibres at the bottom of the vacuum suction tube do get contaminated. Anyway I have a friend who has a VPI type RCM and loricraft RCM. To him big difference in performance and that tempted me to contemplate purchasing one but at Usd 3.5-4k and it's slow cleaning speed will take my time

Mike Lavigne · Jun 4, 2010

audioblazer said:
Myles,
How do u realign the vacuum suction tube? Yes, I don't feel it clear as well unless I have diff vacuum suction tube for different steps and the fibres at the bottom of the vacuum suction tube do get contaminated. Anyway I have a friend who has a VPI type RCM and loricraft RCM. To him big difference in performance and that tempted me to contemplate purchasing one but at Usd 3.5-4k and it's slow cleaning speed will take my time

when i owned my VPI 16.5 over 12 years i got pretty good at adjusting the velvet lips at just the right angle for optimal performance. it's been 5 years since i used the 16.5 but as i recall it had to be rotated so the the openning was slightly more toward the incoming surface yet still had suction. it is difficult to rotate once you insert the tube, so it needs to be inserted at the correct angle. like anything you get a feel for it eventually. but the biggest thing for making sure the minimal 'shmutz' was left on the Lp was to use a 'clean' toothbrush to brush off the velvet lips frequently. i would pull the tube off the 16.5, brush it away from the machine, and put it back down on the machine. sometimes after every side.

besides the 100db home rattleing noise, the biggest weakness of any VPI 'wide vacuum tube' type RCM is that the velvet lips accumlate dirt from record to record.....and that is the basic advantage of the Loricraft/Keith Monks approach; it uses the clean cotton thread as the contact point for each side....and the Loricraft is much quieter....but also more messy as the cleaning fluid tends to be thrown off the machine to some degree......and as you pointed out it takes longer so you are less likely to use it.

gosh; sounds like someone should invent an RCM that does not use a vacuum approach, is fairly quiet, cleans great, and does not require you to stand there and babysit it......hummmmmm.

joe1515 · Jun 4, 2010

Fred said:
Hey Joe, good to see you around buddy. (BluRayFred here). I too use the VPI 16.5 but mix my own solution that works very well. For the rinse cycle it's nothing more than reverse osmosis purified, micron filtered Aquafina bottled water.

Hi Fred,

Glad to see you as well. I really like this new forum.

Joe

jadis · Jul 25, 2011

Mike Lavigne said:
when i owned my VPI 16.5 over 12 years i got pretty good at adjusting the velvet lips at just the right angle for optimal performance. it's been 5 years since i used the 16.5 but as i recall it had to be rotated so the the openning was slightly more toward the incoming surface yet still had suction. it is difficult to rotate once you insert the tube, so it needs to be inserted at the correct angle. like anything you get a feel for it eventually. but the biggest thing for making sure the minimal 'shmutz' was left on the Lp was to use a 'clean' toothbrush to brush off the velvet lips frequently. i would pull the tube off the 16.5, brush it away from the machine, and put it back down on the machine. sometimes after every side.

Hi Mike,

It's a good thing I read this when I did. I was wondering how come after changing to a new tube some liquid still stay on I had to blow dry the LP through an electric fan after the vacuuming. And the problem all along is that the tube need to be rotated at a small angle as you mentioned. Wow, after doing just that and vacuuming my LPs through my 16.5, it's all dry again. Thanks for the heads up.

And yes, the toothbrush on the velvet is a must. That I had been doing all along.

JackD201 · Jul 25, 2011

I used a 16.5 for quite a few years as well then I decided to splurge and got myself a Clearaudio Double Matrix. It's a lazy guy's RCM and does the job well enough for me. I usually use Disc Doctor Miracle Cleaner but recently that ran out and I'm currently using the cleaning fluid that came with my machine. When that runs out, I'll start using my stash of L'art du Son. I guess it shows I'm not exactly OC about the fluid used. Clean is clean as far as I'm concerned both visually and sonically.

microstrip · Jul 25, 2011

I also used a 16.5 for many years until some one nearby post an advertisement for an almost unused HW17. I got it and since them I use it with great success, although I would love to have a silent RCM.

One of my current projects is replacing the direction switch with a timed relay to get automatic forward and back cleaning.

jazdoc · Jul 25, 2011

I've been very pleased with my Loricraft. I've cleaned over 3,000 LPs over the past 3 years and to date, it's been foolproof. I'd love to compare side by side with Odyssey or Monks.

I'm a big fan of the Audio Intelligent cleaning fluids. Best I've tried: http://www.audiointelligent.com/products.htm. They have recently changed the formulation which has significantly cut down on the requisite soak time and significantly shortened the process.

MylesBAstor · Jul 25, 2011

jazdoc said:
I've been very pleased with my Loricraft. I've cleaned over 3,000 LPs over the past 3 years and to date, it's been foolproof. I'd love to compare side by side with Odyssey or Monks.

I'm a big fan of the Audio Intelligent cleaning fluids. Best I've tried: http://www.audiointelligent.com/products.htm. They have recently changed the formulation which has significantly cut down on the requisite soak time and significantly shortened the process.

I've been listening to a couple of fluids including AI, MF, and Record Time.

Which AI combo are you using? I'm trying the #15 followed by a water rinse; the same goes for the MF and Record Time. The problem is the time required to clean an LP eg letting the cleaner sit for 10 mins or more, cleaning the LP and then repeating the procedure. So you really end up only using the AI on your most precious LPs and something else for quick cleaning, eg like the MOFI enzyme. I haven't tried the Walker but wasn't impressed with what I heard at CES.

OTOH, the RCM machine makes a big difference as we know that it's what's left on the LP that affects the sound. And the other problem is that of surface tension; the more fluid removed, the harder it becomes to remove the last traces of cleaning fluid. That's where something like the VPI Typhoon comes into play. You can most definitely hear the differences between A VPI Typhoon and it's baby brother, the 16.5.

mep · Jul 25, 2011

I'm using the 16.5 with MoFi's cleaner. I really like the MoFi cleaner. I think it is much better than the VPI cleaner that comes with the machine. I'm using a Nitty Gritty record brush instead of the VPI brush that I was never wild about. My records have never sounded better after cleaning than they do now. Not to mention the improvements brought by moving to the SP-10 MKII/SME-312S over my TNT/ET-2 combo.

jazdoc · Jul 25, 2011

Myles,

I'm using the 3 step process: Enzymatic Formula > Premium Archivist Formula > Ultra Pure Water Rinse. For most LPs I let the formula sit 2-3 minutes and agitate once or twice. If the record is really filthy, I let the records soak longer (no proof this helps, more hope). So it takes ~20' per LP. I generally clean LPs as I play a CD to warm up the system before serious listening.

Mark

PS - Thanks for the heads up on Verve records...I've bought a few monos and may have to amend my earlier statement regarding recording quality. In fact listening to a Loricrafted minty mono WLP of Oscar Peterson + Milt Jackson "Very Tall" as we speak...outstanding!

MylesBAstor · Jul 25, 2011

mep said:
I'm using the 16.5 with MoFi's cleaner. I really like the MoFi cleaner. I think it is much better than the VPI cleaner that comes with the machine. I'm using a Nitty Gritty record brush instead of the VPI brush that I was never wild about. My records have never sounded better after cleaning than they do now. Not to mention the improvements brought by moving to the SP-10 MKII/SME-312S over my TNT/ET-2 combo.

Yes, I'm trying to figure out whether a pad-like brush such as the MOFI, Disc Doctor or NG or a brush type like the Osage Audio or VPI is better. Right now I'm leaning toward the pad cleaner since intuitively would seem to have more contact area with the groove than a brush. How many bristles can one get into a groove with how much force. OTOH, the Osage Audio and VPI have a lot of bristles/brush. And there's the goat hair brush that Monks sells that I'd like to play with.

How long do you let the MOFI enzyme cleaner sit before vacuuming and do you use the water rinse?

jazdoc · Jul 26, 2011

No science behind this, but I use flat painter's sponges to spread out the cleaning fluid. Then I use separate brushes for steps #1 and #2 (but not for the water rinse).

mep · Jul 26, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
Yes, I'm trying to figure out whether a pad-like brush such as the MOFI, Disc Doctor or NG or a brush type like the Osage Audio or VPI is better. Right now I'm leaning toward the pad cleaner since intuitively would seem to have more contact area with the groove than a brush. How many bristles can one get into a groove with how much force. OTOH, the Osage Audio and VPI have a lot of bristles/brush. And there's the goat hair brush that Monks sells that I'd like to play with.

How long do you let the MOFI enzyme cleaner sit before vacuuming and do you use the water rinse?

I don't let it sit for any length of time. I put a line of drops across the record, turn on the motor, grab my Nitty Gritty record pad brush and let the cleaner spread across the LP, and then vacuum it off. Looks perfect to me when I take it off.

MylesBAstor · Jul 26, 2011

mep said:
I don't let it sit for any length of time. I put a line of drops across the record, turn on the motor, grab my Nitty Gritty record pad brush and let the cleaner spread across the LP, and then vacuum it off. Looks perfect to me when I take it off.

If you're using the MOFI enzyme cleaner, you might try leaving it on for 3-5 mins and repeat twice or so. Then listen

mep · Jul 26, 2011

My bottle just says Super Record Wash.

MylesBAstor · Jul 26, 2011

mep said:
My bottle just says Super Record Wash.

OK you have the old RRL formula developed by Brian Weitzel. Garth at Musical Surroundings then marketed it and eventually sold the rights to Music Direct. Good stuff and my favorite until the newer enzyme based cleaners. It doesn't affect transparency and upper octave extension like some of the other fluids. You should give some of the new enzyme based cleaners a listen. I've had the AI make an almost unlistenable McCoy Tyner Impulse listenable plus. At least on side A; unfortunately can't repair groove damage

mep · Jul 26, 2011

Interesting that I just bought this fluid from Elusive Disc. I would have thought this was their latest and greatest. I think it does a damn good job though and I'm happy with it which I never was with the VPI cleaner.

Record Cleaning Machines

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