Wall Outlets

mep · Sep 17, 2011

I had no idea that people have actually reviewed the *sound* of wall outlets and describe/define them in the same way people do when reviewing audio gear.

http://www.cruzefirstaudio.com/maestro_outlet.htm

wgscott · Sep 17, 2011

Maybe it uses smaller, less resistant audiophile-grade electrons.

MylesBAstor · Sep 17, 2011

wgscott said:
Maybe it uses smaller, less resistant audiophile-grade electrons.

Sorry but there are some solid reasons why receptacles may sound different such as the types of metals (eg, dissimilar metals may degrade the sound as well as the use of nickel between the gold and copper layers) used in the contacts as well as how tight the connection is between the plug and receptacle. Rhodium will sound different from copper that will sound different than silver. Don't forget that at the atomic level, the surface of the plug and receptacle contacts is anything but smooth.

The quality and condition of ordinary wall AC receptacles in your wall has already been discussed. With revealing systems, one should hear a sizable drop in the system's noise floor after changing AC receptacles. And after one hears the drop, you will wonder why you didn't hear it to begin with!

mep · Sep 17, 2011

I just wonder how much of the change is due to the new recepticle having cleaner surfaces and tighter contacts vice the metals used.

wgscott · Sep 17, 2011

Well, I guess I could see how a loose connection might make a difference, but the others (e.g. Cu vs Ag) seem less obvious. Is this something an average person can pick out in a blind test, or how revealing a system is needed?

fas42 · Sep 17, 2011

The key thing is, that very expensive gear "knows" that it's been put together with meticulous care, only using the highest grade silver solder and so can only produce high quality sound. It therefore ignores all less refined, obviously lower quality interfering effects introduced from the outside world: breeding will always show in the end. So, as long as you carefully hide from view of the component, preferably by running the cord around a corner, the fact that it's receiving its power from that murky, low class outside world then the audio system will perform impeccably ...

Frank

MylesBAstor · Sep 17, 2011

mep said:
I just wonder how much of the change is due to the new recepticle having cleaner surfaces and tighter contacts vice the metals used.

Absolutely Mark! This was recently discussed this in another thread here and didn't want to repeat the same things. But yes, it's also clear that these old receptacles contacts are pitted and corroded!

So there are many factors at play here.

MylesBAstor · Sep 17, 2011

tomelex said:
Regular house outlets can be pretty "loose" and not make great contact, thus consume a bit of power across the contacts. Other than that I would like to see tests using measurning instruments to determine the effect on noise passage past the contacts of premium vs new bog standard outlets.

In my world, a firm contact, but with everyday metal construction, might actually prevent a bit of noise from passing through due to its higher resistance/diode effect( diode effect is nothing passes through until it reaches a threshold) and this is an ac circuit also...so...I would like to see the measurements.

To hear this all the way through the power supply, the filter caps, the filter caps in the electronics themselves, the voltage regulators, blah blah, well, not there at this time but again, on poorly designed esoteric equipment, on a case by case basis, a lot of things are possible.

Revealing system? What the hell would that be exactly? Musical? Accurate to measurements.... I do not think anyone can define a revealing system if it does so according to their ears and not measurments. I think we can all agree that for example, one system may reveal more details in the music, but perhaps details on a guitar but not the symbals, etc, so this whole revealing thing must be different depending on circumstances and just what exactly is being sought out to be "revealed".

I suppose I could say that my headphones are more revealing than a lot of speakers, but there again, they have a definite frequency response, and so enhance or de-enhance various frequencies throughout the spectrum, but they sure will reveal noise very well.

Tom

Revealing Tom is hearing everything on the recording. As one's system gets better and better, it's amazing how much information is buried on the LP or CD.

Phelonious Ponk · Sep 18, 2011

Revealing Tom is hearing everything on the recording. As one's system gets better and better, it's amazing how much information is buried on the LP or CD.

There is nothing subjective about that. That is a clear declaration of objective superiority in the revelation of more information with less coloration.

If this is the criteria, then the most "revealing" system is going to be the one that delivers the lowest noise and distortion, and the flattest frequency response, at the listener's ears. And if that is the criteria, then "as ones' system gets better and better" it will most certainly get digital, solid state and headphone-based. And it won't even be really pleasant headphones like big, dynamic Sennheisers that, while revealing an awful lot of detail, are deliberately warmed-up to make them sound a bit more like speakers in a room. This kind of revealing will be maximized by dry, flat, analytical, revealing headphones. And most of us would think it all reveals a bit too much. Even me.

Tim

JackD201 · Sep 18, 2011

I've been here in the US for a week now. When we arrived the living room split type air conditioner was dead. Well, the lights on the split type were on and the vanes were sweeping up and down but there was no air. It was a Saturday so no AC repair guys were picking up the phone. The one that did, said they were backed up for the next three weeks. Great. Anyhow, I decide to see if it was just a case of the breaker for the fan/compressor unit outside the house that had just tripped. Out I go only to find that there was no breaker or fuse at all. I yanked this thing out and it was just a couple of buss bars or whatever you call them. I put it back in, I went back in. Nothing. At this point it was almost noon and it was pretty darn hot. I'm from the Philippines so when I say it's hot, it probably is by anybody's standards. Out I go again. Look into the receptacle of the buss bar thing and lo' and behold. The things caked over with copper rust so thick, it looks like the parts were sourced from the Titanic. I switch off the main breaker, grab the smallest flathead screw driver I could find and proceeded to scrape that stuff out. Sticking in there the first time was the hardest part. I kept on praying my Pop wasn't in the garage playing with the breakers in his own attempt to get relief from the heat. In I go and Woohoo! Cold Air!

The AC was making weird noises though. Sputtery stuff. Out I go again, this time telling my dad to stay away from the breakers. Out I go with the screwdriver some scraps of cloth and polish. Nice and shiny now. The AC stopped sputtering.

I'm thinking, if an outlet can make an air conditioner sound bad.....................

fas42 · Sep 18, 2011

JackD201 said:
I'm thinking, if an outlet can make an air conditioner sound bad.....................

Yep. The sad thing is, that there are plenty of the same problem strewn all through most audio setups, at a far more subtle and less obvious level. But they are there! How do you know they're there? Easy, put on a "bad" recording, listen to all that screetchy, thin sound. Just like the AC making weird noises ...

So the trick is to get stuck in with your screwdriver and polish, or equivalent, everywhere you need to.

Frank

JackD201 · Sep 18, 2011

I find it easier to see if a recording I know is good has been made bad rather than to go the other way and try and polish known t*rds, but to each his own Frank!

fas42 · Sep 18, 2011

Ah, but my special trick is to make BOTH the '"good" and the "smelly" ones come to life! They do so in different ways, in the same way as chidren have their distinct qualities, but the intrinsic worth of both are clear to see.

As far as I'm concerned the muso's laid down down the music because it felt good to them at the time, and I want to feel the good vibes that were around them back then. And if you go about it in a certain way, all IS revealed.

Talking of "bad" recordings, I've got a douzy at the moment, from the library: Yo Yo Ma, Lalo Cell Concerto, 1980 digital recording. Mastered at about 20dB down from normal volume, at maximum on the HT it's about as loud as the TV, and close to being called by me "limp and lifeless" ...

Frank

Vincent Kars · Sep 18, 2011

Here you have a $147 one: http://www.parts-express.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?Partnumber=110-439&vReviewShow=1&vReviewRand=2818820
Enjoy

naturephoto1 · Sep 18, 2011

Yes, there are reviews and reports of the sound for different outlets. I know that Mike L does (or did) use Oyiade R1 receptacles, the same for Bruce B; I also have them installed in my room.

Rich

FrantzM · Sep 18, 2011

Hi

I suppose a bad, loose connection can be audible ... Some connections can be so loose that one can see see sparks coming out of it when the equipment is drawing power. such problems are traceable and measurable.
Good honest tight connections shouldn't do that.. If one wants to be on the safe side, one could use, in the USA, Hospital -Grade outlets. They provide a very tight connection. Unplugging and plugging are difficult... The idea behind hospital-grade outlets is to make sure that the connection is difficult to break: imagine that the cord of a life support machine too easily unplugged from the wall outlet, someone trips on the wire of the life support machine and turning both the machine and the patient off ...
Once at that level is reached no clear difference. The rest is what clever marketing and our audiophile mentality almost compel us to believe .. Thus you see now an explosion of "audiophile" outlets with the most famous, cryogenically .. even cryo wires... and none are cheap with the current audiophile darling the Oyaide costing above of $200 when it is cryo-ed and cooked (I would suppose that such an inhumane treatment to the poor metal would have it lose all its organic sound but ..

). To make it even more interesting they have different faceplates, of course expensive too with carbon fiber and the appropriate audiophile price which means at least $100 .. FYI this FACEPLATE

cost without the outlet $379.99

..

Of course we, audiophiles, will hear these differences .. The only problem is that not knowing the presence of the Oyaide outlets makes us lose that exhalted hearing acuity but once we know we are listening to an Oyade, such acuity quickly returns .. And of course it is superior to all other outlet out there, until some other company manages to convince us that their $ 750 outlet and faceplate combo is even better ...
We are , seemingly heading toward the $1000 outlet + Face faceplate combo .. Will wonders ever cease ???

MylesBAstor · Sep 18, 2011

tomelex said:
I appreciate what you say Myles, if it were only as simple as that.

Perhaps I will start a thread on this subject. There are folks with 1 or 2% distortion in their tube electronics and then add in the2%+ distortion in their speakers and add in the frequency response aberrations and they claim to hear more inof buried in the cd or lp.....vs a system with 0.001% distortion in the electronics and the same speaker and room.

How can that tube system be more revealing?

I bet you use that term a lot, as other reviewers do. Another audiophile term that is not really easy to pin down, even though "everybody" knows what it means...

More revealing of what? Whats in the cd or lp or whats added harmonically that our ears respond more to and think its more details....it aint easy as one might think.

Tom

Hey Tom,

Take a road trip to Steves rather than sitting here postulating, speculating, whatever, with your favorite CD and give it a listen. Tell me if you don't hear more information on the disc. And yes, it's simple as that. Does it sound like a real instrument. Problem is, most people, as Villchur talked about 50 some odd years ago, complained not enough audiophiles go to hear live music.

And I'm not your average audiophile: I been at many recordings session, assisted in the transfer of several classical music LP in the past, etc. And yes it's damn easy to answer the last question. Your ears bleed when it's artificially added detail. By the by, how is it that you can't hear the distortion problems with digital?

Dude that's the difference between hypothesis and prooof. Lot's of things sound good in theory but don't prove correct in reality.

naturephoto1 · Sep 18, 2011

FrantzM said:
Hi

I suppose a bad, loose connection can be audible ... Some connections can be so loose that one can see see sparks coming out of it when the equipment is drawing power. such problems are traceable and measurable.
Good honest tight connections shouldn't do that.. If one wants to be on the safe side, one could use, in the USA, Hospital -Grade outlets. They provide a very tight connection. Unplugging and plugging are difficult... The idea behind hospital-grade outlets is to make sure that the connection is difficult to break: imagine that the cord of a life support machine too easily unplugged from the wall outlet, someone trips on the wire of the life support machine and turning both the machine and the patient off ...
Once at that level is reached no clear difference. The rest is what clever marketing and our audiophile mentality almost compel us to believe .. Thus you see now an explosion of "audiophile" outlets with the most famous, cryogenically .. even cryo wires... and none are cheap with the current audiophile darling the Oyaide costing above of $200 when it is cryo-ed and cooked (I would suppose that such an inhumane treatment to the poor metal would have it lose all its organic sound but .. ). To make it even more interesting they have different faceplates, of course expensive too with carbon fiber and the appropriate audiophile price which means at least $100 .. FYI this FACEPLATE

cost without the outlet $379.99..

Of course we, audiophiles, will hear these differences .. The only problem is that not knowing the presence of the Oyaide outlets makes us lose that exhalted hearing acuity but once we know we are listening to an Oyade, such acuity quickly returns .. And of course it is superior to all other outlet out there, until some other company manages to convince us that their $ 750 outlet and faceplate combo is even better ...
We are , seemingly heading toward the $1000 outlet + Face faceplate combo .. Will wonders ever cease ???

Frantz,

I had these installed into my room: 5 20 amp Oyaide R1 receptacles (2 are in use on 20 amp lines; the others are on 15 amp circuits) along with the 2 Oyaide duplex WPC-Z receptacle covers:

There is no question that they are expensive at least to anyone that is not an audiophile.

Rich

MylesBAstor · Sep 18, 2011

FrantzM said:
Hi

I suppose a bad, loose connection can be audible ... Some connections can be so loose that one can see see sparks coming out of it when the equipment is drawing power. such problems are traceable and measurable.
Good honest tight connections shouldn't do that.. If one wants to be on the safe side, one could use, in the USA, Hospital -Grade outlets. They provide a very tight connection. Unplugging and plugging are difficult... The idea behind hospital-grade outlets is to make sure that the connection is difficult to break: imagine that the cord of a life support machine too easily unplugged from the wall outlet, someone trips on the wire of the life support machine and turning both the machine and the patient off ...
Once at that level is reached no clear difference. The rest is what clever marketing and our audiophile mentality almost compel us to believe .. Thus you see now an explosion of "audiophile" outlets with the most famous, cryogenically .. even cryo wires... and none are cheap with the current audiophile darling the Oyaide costing above of $200 when it is cryo-ed and cooked (I would suppose that such an inhumane treatment to the poor metal would have it lose all its organic sound but .. ). To make it even more interesting they have different faceplates, of course expensive too with carbon fiber and the appropriate audiophile price which means at least $100 .. FYI this FACEPLATE

cost without the outlet $379.99..

Of course we, audiophiles, will hear these differences .. The only problem is that not knowing the presence of the Oyaide outlets makes us lose that exhalted hearing acuity but once we know we are listening to an Oyade, such acuity quickly returns .. And of course it is superior to all other outlet out there, until some other company manages to convince us that their $ 750 outlet and faceplate combo is even better ...
We are , seemingly heading toward the $1000 outlet + Face faceplate combo .. Will wonders ever cease ???

And one of our members, Albert Porter, markets a very reasonably priced outlet for audiophiles. http://www.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?powrdist&1320090742

As far as cryo Rx, the same debate exists in the music industry. Some musicians claim that cryo Rx improves the sound of their instruments and others can't hear any difference.

audioguy · Sep 18, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
The quality and condition of ordinary wall AC receptacles in your wall has already been discussed. With revealing systems, one should hear a sizable drop in the system's noise floor after changing AC receptacles. And after one hears the drop, you will wonder why you didn't hear it to begin with!

So that with all equipment on, but playing no music, we could measure the difference in ambient room noise?

How many db's are we talking about here?

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