The mighty CAT preamps. From the SL1 Reference to the SL1 Renaissance and beyond..

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
I have heard most of the preamps that put CAT and Ken Stevens on the map, from the original SL1 to the Ultimate Mk2. I have not heard the latest versions....the SL1 Renaissance or the Legend.
For those of you that have experience or own these preamps, what are your impressions?:confused:

How do you feel that Ken's mighty CAT preamp stacks up against the current crop from ARC, Lamm, BAT, CJ etc in tubes and Dart, Vitus, Technical Brain ( I'm sure some of us must have heard them) and other ss contenders....
IMO, the mighty CAT still reigns....BUT I could be considered biased:rolleyes:
 

stargate

New Member
Apr 27, 2011
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yardley, pa.
hello Dave-yes I too want to know, so I will be getting the ultimate mk2 at the end of the month-and we will be putting it up against the audio research anniversity preamp-I will be getting at the same time the new statements amps from ken stevens-my findings will be posted there after. I will try to uploud some pictures also-
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I have a friend who runs Ken's large amps with his TOL CAT preamp with a Sirius 3 and Rockport Altair. Sound is wonderful.

In fact he is friends with Ken and brought him over to my house 2 years ago for a listen after I added the Lamm ML3/LL1 Signature combo. He was pretty stone faced silent for the 2 hours he was here but next day my friend told me he really liked my room
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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hello Dave-yes I too want to know, so I will be getting the ultimate mk2 at the end of the month-and we will be putting it up against the audio research anniversity preamp-I will be getting at the same time the new statements amps from ken stevens-my findings will be posted there after. I will try to uploud some pictures also-

Will you be getting Ken's pre with phono section? Know he's incorporated a low turns SUT to give the unit additional gain--the lack of which was a weakness of earlier units. You had to make certain sacrifices if you used a low output MC (despite Ken's protestations :) ). Other CAT preamp owners complained that the volume control didn't have fine enough gradations.

I think you'll find that the ARC and CAT are two different beasts with a different set of strengths and weaknesses. In the end, it will be interesting to hear which sounds more musical. I'll keep my bet under wraps :)
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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I have a friend who runs Ken's large amps with his TOL CAT preamp with a Sirius 3 and Rockport Altair. Sound is wonderful.

In fact he is friends with Ken and brought him over to my house 2 years ago for a listen after I added the Lamm ML3/LL1 Signature combo. He was pretty stone faced silent for the 2 hours he was here but next day my friend told me he really liked my room

I think we know who that is :)
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
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HI All,
I've never owned CAT stuff but I have been around them quite a bit. I felt the sound of the preamp was excellent, as good as I have heard. My two complaints were noise (and low gain for low output MC's) and the poor resolution on the volume control. Both of these things were deal breakers for me.

Sparky
 

stargate

New Member
Apr 27, 2011
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yardley, pa.
Myles, I do not know what CAT preamp is coming-one with or one without a phono stage--why because I'm staying put of what I have now-that section is only going to be a shoot out--but hold on to the your envelop till sometime in october- for I am curiuos for the nomination---Karma, are you talking about the lastest ultimate mk 2 preamp-if so that will be something I would listen for---I'm running the outfit with the eventus audio nebula's speakers-follow up with two rel studio 111-subs-and down the middle is the basic debut attached is the graham love surpreme tonearm with the dynavector t-------may the force be with me--steve we all know who you are talking about--my room size is 10Hx16Wx26L......be still observe everything desire nothing.......
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Myles, I do not know what CAT preamp is coming-one with or one without a phono stage--why because I'm staying put of what I have now-that section is only going to be a shoot out--but hold on to the your envelop till sometime in october- for I am curiuos for the nomination---Karma, are you talking about the lastest ultimate mk 2 preamp-if so that will be something I would listen for---I'm running the outfit with the eventus audio nebula's speakers-follow up with two rel studio 111-subs-and down the middle is the basic debut attached is the graham love surpreme tonearm with the dynavector t-------may the force be with me--steve we all know who you are talking about--my room size is 10Hx16Wx26L......be still observe everything desire nothing.......

Perhaps you do

Mike is a very close friend and lives but a mile or 2 from me. When he isn't using the big CAT amps he uses ARC Ref 610T

BTW, those Altair's are the same ones reviewed in TAS by RH
 

karma

New Member
Jun 17, 2011
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White Rock, New Mexico
Myles, I do not know what CAT preamp is coming-one with or one without a phono stage--why because I'm staying put of what I have now-that section is only going to be a shoot out--but hold on to the your envelop till sometime in october- for I am curiuos for the nomination---Karma, are you talking about the lastest ultimate mk 2 preamp-if so that will be something I would listen for---I'm running the outfit with the eventus audio nebula's speakers-follow up with two rel studio 111-subs-and down the middle is the basic debut attached is the graham love surpreme tonearm with the dynavector t-------may the force be with me--steve we all know who you are talking about--my room size is 10Hx16Wx26L......be still observe everything desire nothing.......

HI stargate,
No, I'm speaking about earlier models. My complaints were common comments back then. Lately, I have not had any experience with CAT. I hope these problems are addressed because otherwise they were great and hopefully they remain great.

Sparky
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Perhaps you do

Mike is a very close friend and lives but a mile or 2 from me. When he isn't using the big CAT amps he uses ARC Ref 610T

BTW, those Altair's are the same ones reviewed in TAS by RH

Yes, that's who I was thinking of :)

Know Mike thru Roger Skoff and those days. He and Roger were (are?) good friends.
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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HI All,
I've never owned CAT stuff but I have been around them quite a bit. I felt the sound of the preamp was excellent, as good as I have heard. My two complaints were noise (and low gain for low output MC's) and the poor resolution on the volume control. Both of these things were deal breakers for me.

Sparky

How about that silly umbilical cord that Ken refuses to put a connector on one end? Add that to the list of complaints.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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La Jolla, Calif USA
How about that silly umbilical cord that Ken refuses to put a connector on one end? Add that to the list of complaints.

I asked Ken about the umbilical cord last time I spoke to him. He was fairly adamant that a connector would possibly degrade the sound and more importantly be a concern for servicing. I would think he has a point there, if the connector fails then who wants to have to ship back to Ken for replacement, plus the non-removeable umbilical isn't a BIG deal to me. :D
I also believe that if your CAT preamp is at all noisy, then that has to do with the tube quality and age...not the preamp:cool:
 

fas42

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Jan 8, 2011
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I asked Ken about the umbilical cord last time I spoke to him. He was fairly adamant that a connector would possibly degrade the sound and more importantly be a concern for servicing. I would think he has a point there, if the connector fails then who wants to have to ship back to Ken for replacement, plus the non-removeable umbilical isn't a BIG deal to me.
Ken's a smart fellow! That's exactly the sort of steps you have to take if you want the best possible sound, I would take that as proof that he's gone the extra mile to ensure good sound no matter what. So, for that reason alone, I'd put him on the short list of manufacturers I'd take seriously ...

Frank
 

microstrip

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I asked Ken about the umbilical cord last time I spoke to him. He was fairly adamant that a connector would possibly degrade the sound and more importantly be a concern for servicing. I would think he has a point there, if the connector fails then who wants to have to ship back to Ken for replacement, plus the non-removeable umbilical isn't a BIG deal to me. :D
I also believe that if your CAT preamp is at all noisy, then that has to do with the tube quality and age...not the preamp:cool:

Although if Ken says so, the argument for sound degradation is acceptable, the reliability would not be affected by the proper connector - any military certified connector correctly assembled has a MTBF of tens or hundreds of thousands insertions!

I had some experience with CAT equipment fifteen years ago - they sounded excellent, but at that time reliability was an issue. Unhappily the absence of service conditions to foreign distributors and the long return time drove me away from this brand.
 

mep

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Although if Ken says so, the argument for sound degradation is acceptable, the reliability would not be affected by the proper connector - any military certified connector correctly assembled has a MTBF of tens or hundreds of thousands insertions!

I'm not buying the "if Ken says so" argument on why you need to have a 65 lb preamp tethered to an outboard power supply permanently which makes installing it a real bitch.
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
6,129
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La Jolla, Calif USA
I'm not buying the "if Ken says so" argument on why you need to have a 65 lb preamp tethered to an outboard power supply permanently which makes installing it a real bitch.

Mark, I do agree that the positioning options of the power supply are somewhat limiting, although this factor has never made me think any less of the preamp:D. For this sound quality,I have no problem utilizing another shelf or stand for the power supply. Even if the power supply umbilical was able to be disconnected, I doubt that the issue of placement would be significantly easier.
 

Occam

[Industry Expert]
Dec 15, 2010
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NYC
Although I can't speak to more current versions, my SL-1 MkIII is very sensitive to the vibration treatment of the separate power supply. Its as sensitive, if not more so, as the actual main chassis. I use 3 BDR carbon fiber cones (#3) under the power supply, and 3 Stillpoints under the main chassis.

FWIW,
Paul
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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With regards to the CAT preamp being able to play low output mc cartridges, let me say this about that. I honestly don’t think that you can play any mc cartridge with an output below .47mV without a lot of noise. If you say otherwise, you have a high tolerance for noise.

And let’s expand that beyond just the CAT. Any pure tube phono section simply can’t amplify low output mc cartridges without adding noise. People with minimal to no understanding of electronics simply don’t understand how low of a voltage that low output mc cartridges represent to the input of a pre-preamp or a regular phono stage. There are lots of cartridges that hover around the .2mV range and some that even dip into the .1mV range. By comparison, the average mm/mi cartridge has an output of around 4.7mV which is a huge difference.

Tubes have a noise floor which is higher than transistors and can’t be denied. As tubes age, it’s common that they become noisier. When you are trying to amplify a signal that is .23mV for example, you are amplifying a signal that represents .00023 V. No matter how you cut the mustard, you are into the noise floor of the tubes. If you love the sound of low output mc cartridges and you don’t want the signal riding on a bunch of noise, you are forced to go SS or use a trafo. I prefer to use a SS phono section and keep the noise out. Anyone want to buy a Counterpoint SA-2 pre-preamp??
 

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