the Durand 'Telos' 12" tonearm

mep · Sep 10, 2011

MylesBAstor said:
Don't assume Go into a gym and you'll see pieces of equipment that are downright dangerous or useless and should be avoided like the plague. But a gym has to have them there to sell memberships Same with arms, some things are done for convenience, etc. Hey, HW disconnected the anti-skating because he felt it sounded better and people howled. So later on, he added a defeatable anti-skate device.

Apples and oranges Myles. HW recommended that people twist the tonearm wires in order to achieve the desired anti-skating effect. I don’t want to buy a tonearm that I have to be involved with twisting the tonearm wires in order to make it work correctly. If Harry feels that anti-skating is nonsense, he should just say so and not tell his customers to twist the wires.

I still have a Wally anti-skating device for the JMW tonearms if anyone wants it.

MylesBAstor · Sep 10, 2011

mep said:
Apples and oranges Myles. HW recommended that people twist the tonearm wires in order to achieve the desired anti-skating effect. I don’t want to buy a tonearm that I have to be involved with twisting the tonearm wires in order to make it work correctly. If Harry feels that anti-skating is nonsense, he should just say so and not tell his customers to twist the wires.

I still have a Wally anti-skating device for the JMW tonearams if anyone wants it.

No, not that antiskating is nonsense; it is at best a compromise and can't really keep up with the dynamic changes occuring as the stylus traces the grooves. It's actually not hocus pocus and has good basis in science. Several other designers have even talked about it--Graham has even developed his own Magnetoglide to account for antiskating.

mep · Sep 10, 2011

I thought that the Magnaglide was what Bob came up to keep the unipivot from teeter-tottering. Anti-skating is based on physics.

MylesBAstor · Sep 10, 2011

mep said:
I thought that the Magnaglide was what Bob came up to keep the unipivot from teeter-tottering. Anti-skating is based on physics.

Actually we're both right

If all that weren't enough, the Magneglide (TM) system also permits the application of anti-skate through the magnetic coupling of the design, thereby eliminating ANY direct contact or possible resonance to affect the main pivot assembly of the tonearm. The anti-skate system is completely independent, mechanically, and is easily adjusted either by a thumb-wheel rotation or sliding motion (user's choice) of the bias weight for minute adjustments from near zero force to 3+ grams.

Gregadd · Sep 10, 2011

mep said:
I hope you guys realize that I find it a little silly that if a competent tonearm designer makes a tonearm and someone less competent starts removing things from his design and thinks it sounds better it is a bit of a stretch for me.

I for one know that I’m not as smart as SME’s engineers. It would never cross my mind to look at my SME 312S arm and say, “What could I remove from this tonearm that would make it sound better?” I would assume that all of those pieces are there for a reason.

many have replaced the cables in the other sme arms

Gregadd · Sep 10, 2011

mep said:
Apples and oranges Myles. HW recommended that people twist the tonearm wires in order to achieve the desired anti-skating effect. I don’t want to buy a tonearm that I have to be involved with twisting the tonearm wires in order to make it work correctly. If Harry feels that anti-skating is nonsense, he should just say so and not tell his customers to twist the wires.

I still have a Wally anti-skating device for the JMW tonearams if anyone wants it.

He thinks it degrades the sound. Wire twisting is a response to criticism

jtinn · Sep 11, 2011

mep said:
What exotic and expensive materials does it use that are outside of the norm?

Mark, I do not know. I won't even ask Joel as I believe he should not share the information to keep what could be a huge market edge.

jtinn · Sep 11, 2011

mep said:
I just find it interesting that here comes a guy out of left field and hits a home run the first time he steps up to bat. Does he have his own machine shop or is all of this being done using university resources as well? This is kind of reminiscent of what Amar Bose did with using MIT resources to develop the Bose speakers. I don’t know who did his marketing for him, but I think they should get more credit for Bose success than MIT’s engineering department.

I am sure it does not hurt to have the University engineering department assisting. As far as Joel is concerned, he is one of the smartest people I have ever met. The more I get to know him, the more impressed I am with him. His approach to things is very refreshing. I would also say that coming out of left field does not necessarily mean he did not put in his dues. I know there was a great amount of prototyping done on the first arm and I gladly read along during his project when he used to post everything. I was always very anxious to see his next step. Also, I hope he is as successful as Amar Bose

mep said:
I think you said Durand spent around 2000 hours of labor on his first tonearm. That translates to about one year of time which in the grand scheme of things is not much. You have companies such as SME who have been building tonearms for a gazillion years and have top-notch mechanical engineers working for them and machine shops used for the aeronautical machining world and are second to none. And yet Joel comes along and 2000 hours later and with the help of university students, he has beaten everyone who builds tonearms at their own game even though some of these companies have a lifetime of experience building tonearms and unmatched resources to do so. This goes beyond incredible that he pulled this off.

It happens!

mep said:
I’m very curious as to what materials he used and where and why they make the differences they do. You guys keep talking about the materials being rare and very expensive so I would assume he is using rare earth metals. I’m also surprised at the choice of wood for the tonearm and maybe that more than any other factor is responsible for the tone he is getting out the arm. I would think that using wood would put the *tone* back in the tonearm. In this high-tech world of ours, using wood for the tonearm almost seems the equivalent of going back to cactus needles for our stylus.

Wood is an organic material and generally speaking leads to a more organic sound depending on where it is used and what type of wood is implemented. Joel carefully looked at the resonant frequencies of many materials and chose this particular wood. The funny thing is that during our research for the Wave Kinetics design, we came to the same conclusion.

Mark, whether it is the Talea or the Telos, I am pretty sure you will share in all of our enthusiasm.

rockitman · Sep 21, 2011

sounds exciting ! Durand arms are definately on my shortlist for a second arm when my new table is released (Clearaudio Master Innovation) come near the end of the year. Reed is also under consideration. Damn this life (ahem hobby) is getting expensive. You only live once. Enjoy the music as best you can while you can....that is my motto when I think about the money I spend in audio.

Mike Lavigne · Oct 6, 2011

here is information on the new Telos.

http://www.durand-tonearms.com/Telos/thetelos.html

here are the specs.

http://www.durand-tonearms.com/Telos/Telos/thetelosspecs.html

rockitman · Oct 7, 2011

and I thought it would look like the Talea 2 with a longer arm. Wow, looks like a complete re-design...

jtinn · Oct 8, 2011

mep said:
I hope you guys realize that I find it a little silly that if a competent tonearm designer makes a tonearm and someone less competent starts removing things from his design and thinks it sounds better it is a bit of a stretch for me.

I for one know that I’m not as smart as SME’s engineers. It would never cross my mind to look at my SME 312S arm and say, “What could I remove from this tonearm that would make it sound better?” I would assume that all of those pieces are there for a reason.

Please check out the KISS principle by Kelly Johnson!

DEV · Oct 19, 2011

Here's a nice pic

Mike Lavigne · Oct 21, 2011

DEV said:
Here's a nice pic

thanks David.

i'll have my Telos installed tomorrow....at least that is the plan. i'm pretty excited about it.

TheAudioAssociation · Oct 21, 2011

Mike Lavigne said:
i'll have my Telos installed tomorrow....at least that is the plan. i'm pretty excited about it.

Congrats Mike! I'm jealous!

Mike Lavigne · Oct 23, 2011

yesterday was a big day at the old barn. i installed the new larger halo on the NVS with the large stainless steel arm boards, recieved and installed the new 'Shaker Table' isolation shelf under the NVS, and Joel Durand delivered and installed my new Telos tonearm.

waahooo!

Joel also installed my Talea 2 on the other side with my Miyajima Premuim Mono Be which had been on the Talea 1.

the Shaker Table is new beacuse it is now adjusted for the heavier large halo with the large stainless steel arm boards and the much heavier Telos tonearm.

Thursday night i had my new Found Music 2a3 monoblocks delivered; so it's been a wonderful few days. all this stuff has been many months coming; and now it all happens in 48 hours.

after the Telos was installed Joel, Scott Sheaffer who built the amps, and myself enjoyed some vinyl.

it was amazing. later last night i threw the dart amp back in so i could listen to the Telos with my long term reference. whichever amp; the Telos (with the now Telos friendly NVS) is truely a monumental achievement. a true Halo deck.....space machine......magic carpet...whatever way to say it........

and i love the look of the Telos, it's breathtakingly beautiful, and the level of finsih work is astonishing!

Bravo Joel!

rad · Oct 23, 2011

Wow !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Mike, Looks awesome, Thanks for the pics & update.
Can't wait for mine......................................................................................

Gregadd · Oct 23, 2011

If only your new amp was as beautiful as your room and other equipment. Please don't change speakers.

Mike Lavigne · Oct 23, 2011

Gregadd said:
If only your new amp was as beautiful as your room and other equipment. Please don't change speakers.

DEV · Oct 23, 2011

Hi Mike great pics,

thanks for sharing.

the Durand 'Telos' 12" tonearm

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