Which < $1500 Tube Pre?

Flac>2>Dac · Sep 1, 2011

Hi there. I'm obviously new here. I'm an active poster and participant at AVS, but while they have some excellent forums and owners sections, I was interested in a fresh perspective on this particular subject.

I've been 1-source, all digital for about 6 years now. When DACs started to incorporate volume control, it was all the rage to do away with the Pre and run a DAC w/volume control directly into a power amp. I've done so with my last 3 DACs, having the most success...by far...with my current EE Minimax DAC. However, as good as that sound is…I just upgraded my speakers from Dynaudio Contour S1.4s to Special 25s; and I find the 25s to be much more revealing of components upstream.

As such, I’m thinking there might be some sonic benefits to be gained by going back to a dedicated Pre-amp (which would also allow me to try the new Minimax Plus…which does away with the volume control and Pre-stage). I have an SS power amp, and subscribe to the best-of-both-worlds, tube Pre into SS power amp theory. As the title states, I’m looking to stay under $1500 (plenty under if possible) on the used market.

Here are the contenders so far:

ARC SP16L
C-J PV14LS2
Belles 22A (a hybrid, not all tube)

or something Cary; SLP-50(a/b) or 98 or 308

Any thoughts about a clear winner in this group? Thanks; look forward to the feedback from the forum.

CD

amirm · Sep 2, 2011

Hi CD. Welcome to the forum. I too am in the same situation driving our DAC directly into the power amp wondering if a pre-amp would improve things. I added my old Rotel and thought it cause significant degradation so I took it out. Have not tried anything else. With the addition of our Reel to Reel, I am now forced back into needing a pre-amp

. So would be interested in what folks have to say, especially about Cary as we have had those folks visiting us about potentially carrying their product.

Whatmore · Sep 2, 2011

Try this beauty
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Weston-A...Amplifiers&hash=item3f0d698081#ht_1092wt_1141

amirm · Sep 2, 2011

What juxtaposition! Curly maple with army green!!!

Whatmore · Sep 2, 2011

amirm said:
What juxtaposition! Curly maple with army green!!!

Built like a tank they are!

amirm · Sep 2, 2011

I am sure. When you are done listening to it, you can ride it around the block.

LL21 · Sep 2, 2011

Hi. i used to own PV14L. It is a very good pre, musical and with a touch of warmth that comes with a touch of 'fuzz' in the detail area compared to some competitors in that price range. (note, i still bought it and used it for many years). for your budget, you might also go with Shindo Aurieges second hand. lower noise floor, better detailing, and extremely enjoyable. cannot comment on the others...good luck and pls keep us posted.

mep · Sep 2, 2011

If you can stretch your budget, The Cary SLP-98 is a fine sounding preamp. I had one in my system for a few weeks while my Counterpoint was off for one of it's many upgrades. In fact, I wouldn't mind hearing it again to see if my opinion of it has changed after lving with SS preamps for awhile now. The SLP-98 rarely comes up for sale on Audiogon and when they do they get snatched up right away.

microstrip · Sep 2, 2011

If you can find and afford an used cj premier 14 it is a great preamplifier and an excellent match with solid state amplifiers. The cj premier 14 shared may features with the ART - the power supply design, suspended chassis, exactly the same volume system. I listened to it driving the Mark Levinson ML23.5 and the Krell KSA300s SS amplifiers with great success.

http://www.conradjohnson.com/It_just_sounds_right/a-pr14.html

LL21 · Sep 3, 2011

Agree with Microstrip...if you go back to the annals of history in Stereophile, the Premier 14 was well regarded for many, many years and most of the threads/posts suggest it was in fact suprerior to the later PV14L.

I never heard the Premier 14...but if you wish, you can not only buy it...but then also send it to Bob Backert in PHiladelphia. According to probably 30 threads i have read over several different sites (and speaking with Bob myself)...he is a deeply respected modifier who specialises in CJ equpment. the head of the Philadelphia Audiophile Society (i spoke with him myself when considering going with Bob)...also speaks volumes of praise about Bob's honesty, integrity and highquality workmanship.

I think you get way more bang for your buck this way, on older CJ equipment...though i am tempted to think about what would happen with a CJ GAT...

flez007 · Sep 3, 2011

I would consider an Audible Illusions preamp in your case.

LL21 · Sep 3, 2011

I have read execellent things about this preamp...in fact, the review from Soundstage on the CJ PV14L compared the 2 and i got the impression the Audible was considered superior.

Flac>2>Dac · Sep 3, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
I have read execellent things about this preamp...in fact, the review from Soundstage on the CJ PV14L compared the 2 and i got the impression the Audible was considered superior.

Which model AI are you guys referring to? Have a link to that review? I see the L-1 reviewed at SoundStage, but no mention of the C-J. Not to just keep throwing Pre choices out there, but I'm also considering a McCormack RLD-1. The ARC and C-J...Belles 22a, etc...are at the top of my list. But as I said in my OP, I just upgraded speakers and am a music-lover on a budget...lol

Any thoughts on the McCormack piece? Great participation so far guys. Thanks!

CD

LL21 · Sep 3, 2011

Audible Illusions Modulus 3a...let me do some digging...

LL21 · Sep 3, 2011

got it...wow, i have not read this since 2002...cannot believe i remembered this tiny reference after all these years... guess you can tell i do all my research and reading carefully before i buy...

i owned the 14l for several years before moving up the CJ chain.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/conradjohnson_pv14ls.htm

Flac>2>Dac · Sep 3, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
got it...wow, i have not read this since 2002...cannot believe i remembered this tiny reference after all these years... guess you can tell i do all my research and reading carefully before i buy... i owned the 14l for several years before moving up the CJ chain.

http://www.soundstage.com/revequip/conradjohnson_pv14ls.htm

Excellent; thanks for bringing the AI 3a to my attention. Sounds like a "purists" dream. Having read that review, I might still lean toward the C-J for two reasons. One, this comment "some system matching might also be necessary, for the PV14LS might be a better match with more bright or forward-sounding amplification, source components, listening rooms, or speakers". As I mentioned, my new Dynaudio Special 25s can sound a bit bright and/or forward, on anything short of the best "audiophile" recordings (but oh so magical with the good stuff...lol). Two, the AI has no remote. I know I didn't mention it in my OP; but after having lived without one, as a necessary evil of my otherwise excellent EE DAC, I'd really like to have one back with this Pre purchase.

The quest continues!

CD

LL21 · Sep 3, 2011

Glad to be of some help. I have heard Dynaudios a long time ago, i think and know a little about their drivers, and have read the review on the Special 25...nice speaker. If you think it can be a bit forward, the CJ may ameliorate that. But it may also expose it slight touch of fuzz in the mids...i do think an upgrade of caps, etc wont cost much (CJ will probably do this, if you ask nicely)...as would Bob Backert...and then i think you are talking some serious sound. Good luck and pls keep us posted.

Flac>2>Dac · Sep 3, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
Glad to be of some help. I have heard Dynaudios a long time ago, i think and know a little about their drivers, and have read the review on the Special 25...nice speaker. If you think it can be a bit forward, the CJ may ameliorate that. But it may also expose it slight touch of fuzz in the mids...i do think an upgrade of caps, etc wont cost much (CJ will probably do this, if you ask nicely)...as would Bob Backert...and then i think you are talking some serious sound. Good luck and pls keep us posted.

I will. I know a guy, through the Dyn community (which is strong), who's a C-J freak! If anyone will know how to wring the best out of a PV14LS2, it would be him...lol (although I'll ask him about Bob Backert). I know another guy...also through the Dyn connection...who has recently taken the same upgrade path as me; Contour S1.4s to Special 25s. He had the same problem with a touch of brightness/forwardness, and I think he has the ARC SP16L just slightly edging out (no pun intended) the C-J right now.

As I said, I will keep the post informed.

CD

flez007 · Sep 3, 2011

lloydelee21 said:
Audible Illusions Modulus 3a...let me do some digging...

Yes, the 3a

es347 · Sep 4, 2011

Flac>2>Dac said:
Which model AI are you guys referring to? Have a link to that review? I see the L-1 reviewed at SoundStage, but no mention of the C-J. Not to just keep throwing Pre choices out there, but I'm also considering a McCormack RLD-1. The ARC and C-J...Belles 22a, etc...are at the top of my list. But as I said in my OP, I just upgraded speakers and am a music-lover on a budget...lol

Any thoughts on the McCormack piece? Great participation so far guys. Thanks!

CD

I had an RLD-1 pre that replaced a AR LS3. The McCormack was noticeably more dynamic and resolving than the AR. I thought you were looking for a tube preamp.

Which < $1500 Tube Pre?

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