Too Late For Analog?

BFlowers

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2010
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Westlake Texas
I am interested in opinions from the learned! What would you do if you were in my shoes? I am a 40 yo music lover that has tried over the past 4 years to create a state of the art system. I am too young to have grown up with vinyl, thus I have no records. Would you start investing in vinyl playback at this juncture, given that digital appears to be the future. A person in this forum has kept me out of vinyl thus far for a variety of reasons. Oneobgyn and I have both saved a lot of money because of him. :) I would be curious to hear other's take on the potential downsides of "going vinyl". I will list a few: expense of TT set up, expense of source material, lack of source material, reliability issues, record cleaning, etc. Also, is current music recorded in analog these days, or is it recorded digitally and transferred to analog. Thanks for your comments.

Current system Wilson Alexandria X2 S2, Boulder 2060, 2010, MBL 1621A and Boulder 2020 DAC
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I am interested in opinions from the learned! What would you do if you were in my shoes? I am a 40 yo music lover that has tried over the past 4 years to create a state of the art system. I am too young to have grown up with vinyl, thus I have no records. Would you start investing in vinyl playback at this juncture, given that digital appears to be the future. A person in this forum has kept me out of vinyl thus far for a variety of reasons. Oneobgyn and I have both saved a lot of money because of him. :) I would be curious to hear other's take on the potential downsides of "going vinyl". I will list a few: expense of TT set up, expense of source material, lack of source material, reliability issues, record cleaning, etc. Also, is current music recorded in analog these days, or is it recorded digitally and transferred to analog. Thanks for your comments.

Current system Wilson Alexandria X2 S2, Boulder 2060, 2010, MBL 1621A and Boulder 2020 DAC

well we both know Marty's thoughts on getting back into vinyl.

The one thing I disagree with however is your comment about the expense of source material as well as th availability. This just isn't the case.

Heck the Bay Area has Amoeba records where one can amass an immediate record collection by paying $1-$2/album
 

Wardsweb

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May 8, 2010
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As my signature says, audio is a journey. There are not many people who start off with a Rockport and Acapella Triolon Excalibur Speakers. Systems are built over time, upgrading, learning and to taste. Start out with a modest vinyl rig and just listen. What do you like or not with it? Is that attributed to the source or the player? You will arrive at a place that is both satisfying and yours.

I have heard many times, " the only person who has to like your system is you."
 

cjfrbw

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Apr 20, 2010
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For a couple hundred bucks, you can get a "cheap ass" vinyl rig and try it out for yourself, sell if you don't like it. Unfortunately, such simple rigs tend to grow on you and you may find yourself upgrading rather quickly.
Some kind of Dual turntable, Yamaha C70 preamp, Shure XV type cartridge and some cheap records, easy to resell etc.
Nothing against digital, because digital is quite good nowadays and getting better, but vinyl is still unique and addictive to those who like it.
 

vinylphilemag

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Apr 30, 2010
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IMHO, it is never too late to get into analogue. Of course, given the rest of your rig, an entry-level system won't do: you'll certainly be looking higher up the ladder than most vinyl neophytes. But that's OK, 'cause you'll get even more enjoyment out of your records!
 

audioguy

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Apr 20, 2010
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I might go a bit above a Dual. Maybe a Rega. But there is a LOT of LP recordings that are both great music and great sound for very little money. Collecting records is fun. Looking through vinyl bins is fun. If you travel in your business, visiting used record stores in other cities is fun. Listening to analog is fun ... but, you may not like the rituals and loss of convenience that goes along with listening to LP's (cleaning records; getting out of your chair and flipping sides, no remote !!) or the invariable pops and ticks that come with analog (one area that a great turntable system can help reduce).

But given the quality of your rig, I would sure consider investing up to a few thousand dollars on a good used table, arm and cartridge to find out if it is your thing. If not, you would be able to recover most of the cost of your hardware. If so, you would still be able to recover most of your investment and go for the big vinyl system.

Join the ranks!!
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

By now my positions should be well known. I used to be a staunch analog person. No longer, Vinyl is good and can be great but to me digital is where I am .. From time to time I do fid some treasures that are not on CD and likely will never be ... For the amount of music currently available in digital form and having heard what digital can do .. I am in the Digital camp ... I am not alone ... Is it too late for analog? Looks like like it to me ...

Frantz
 

Ron Party

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Apr 30, 2010
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Indeed, Frantz, you are not alone. Regrettably, though, the loudness wars make analog an easy choice in many instances.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Hi

I'm the same age and was able to build up a collection of near mint originals and reissues (almost 2000 to date) in around 3 years and I'm half way around the world. The US is the motherlode of vinyl. You should have no problem whatsoever acquiring quality vinyl especially with the aid of the net.

Here are some things I struggled with when I started but thanks to the help of experienced friends was , sort of, able to overcome.

Number 1 has got to be set up. High end is so far removed from the P mount I grew up with in my rack system. It is not rocket science and certainly doesn't require knowledge of any black arts. It's like tuning up your own car. It just takes lots of practice and lots of test driving until it becomes second nature. If you have someone nearby who is adept at turntable set up who can help you, you're golden.

Number 2 has got to be storage. Because analog can be so addicting, your LPs will multiply like gremlins. Keeping the listening room looking neat and the collection well sorted takes some discipline. It gets hard when on those now all too rare, 8 hour genre jumping listening marathons.

Number 3 would have to be choosing the right cartridge. This is the only piece of equipment the dealer is not going to lend you for home audition. With top carts in the mid 4 figures and a few in five figure land, it's no surprise they would entrust such delicate instruments to even their best clients. That brings me to number 4.

Number 4. Carts are delicate. Keep away from children, pets and untrained household help. Nothing like a broken cantilever to make you weak in the knees. To avoid this one might also avoid drinking and spinning :lol: Keep a breathalyzer beside the antistatic gun :) :) :)

I see no reason why anybody with good eyes and steady hands regardless of age should not get into analog if the 4 things above can be dealt with.

Come on, Jump in!
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
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I'd let go of vinyl for years with little interest in revisiting it, particularly as I was getting hooked on streaming -- the instant access to everything. It's almost antithetical to vinyl.

Then I attended the 2005 Vacuum Tube Valley show -- about 60 rooms of manufacturers and all the best sounding rooms were analog -- they were just more alive. This was the furthest thing from my mind walking in, but the facts were the facts to my ears. Before leaving, had a talk w/Harry Weisfeld of VPI, but mostly he just played a bunch of records for me on a modest system. Realized I had to get back into it.

Finally put together a system last year. Followed my promise to self not to spend nutty, wait and see how much I really use it. Bought a used Scoutmaster w/the Dynavector 20XL cartridge it comes with. Bought a used Dynavector phono stage as well. Sound was good, but not special and had various problems. Skipping a bunch of details and tribulations (noise issues, etc.), now have a Hanss T-20 TT w/a Dynavector XX2mkII cartridge (great, great piece). Was lent a Sutherland Hubble phono stage for a few days and WOW, there it was. Alive in front of me. Getting it to work has been frustrating road , but can't wait to get a phono stage now and start spinning discs.
 

vinylphilemag

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Apr 30, 2010
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What about the question of current music being recorded in digital vs analog? Will new releases still have the analog advantage?

Analogue vs digital recording aside, one advantage some (many?) contemporary vinyl releases have over their CD brethren is the loudness wars alluded to earlier. From what I've heard, some vinyl records aren't as compressed as their CD counterparts, resulting in better dynamic range (the recent Metallica releases come to mind).
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
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i was 44 in 1995 when i got back into vinyl after 10+ years away from it. i bought a 3rd hand VPI TNT Mk2, Graham 1.5tc arm and Benz Glider cartridge. i'd been reading Michael Fremer in Stereophile and Classic Records was just introducing the RCA Living Stereo reissues. Fremer touted these Lps as a no-brainer way to start a record collection. made sense to me.

it took me about 3 years to really get into it but i've never regretted it. with a little effort one could assemble a 300-500 Lp collection from Thrift Stores, ebay, and some select reissues. back in 1995 there was a very limited selection of gear to choose from. there were lots of used Lps but few new ones. today the analog cup runneth over with gear and software.

it does require a commitment; but i think it's worth it.

think of it this way; for the same investment as State of the Art digital, you can have a vinyl system that performs better. and from that point you can improve it in an almost linear fashion as you improve it. there is almost an unlimited up-side to vinyl performance.
 

soundofvoid

WBF Founding Member
Apr 22, 2010
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GET INTO IT! It's a whole different sound (read: world).From the rest of your system you seem like a guy who goes to the top.
Probably you have come to believe that you should pay a hefty amount of money to make your analog rig sound equal to your digital one.
THIS IS NOT THE CASE!The second hand market is full of hidden treasures.Spending an amount that some spent for an Ac power cord
could reveal to you a reality that is "under the radar".A nice Denon DP series DD turntable (say a DP-72/62/59) complete with excellent tonearms can be obtained from ebay for 500$.
A nice (in top shape) cartridge for another 500-1000$.Decent used phono stages can be had from 500$ to 1000$.Hook them up together,set them up nicely and expect to be amazed.If not in all areas ,I bet you in most crucial ones ,it will give your digital combo a run for it's money...and not only when playing "audiophile" records.Simply good vinyl pressings will be more than enough to serve as an eye opener...
BUT IF YOU DO THAT I PITY YOU!You will be hooked and loose your digital nirvana for ever after...
 

audioblazer

Member Sponsor
May 13, 2010
765
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Based on what u have , vinyl seems cheap. I started my hifi journey about 4 years ago with digital source. set up As I was sourcing to get a better cd player, I came across a hifi dealer playing vinyl on Linn sondek with a cheap integrated amp and basic standmount speaker. To me its sounded heavily and that is what music is all about to me. Since then my main source has been vinyl and I accumulated 2000+ Lp within 3 years purchasing mainly from ebay , mikrokosmos, cdandlp, audiophileusa etc. In fact there are plenty of LP available in USA. Based on your system, I would suggest to go for a good turntable and collect 200-300 good and original LP. U dont need a few thousand LPs. I suspect most vinyl collectors probably listen to only 10-15% of their collection. check out ebay source audiophile_lp.my. A lot of his titled is sonically superior. I knew the seller well
Dont miss our on the fun of listening to LP. The only pain to me is the troublesome cleaning process. Then again if you have affordability, audiodesk cleaner is very convenient.
 

ack

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
May 6, 2010
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Rob, I am intrigued by the Hubble - see also our discussion on agon... Did you find it at a local dealer or some online store like elusivedisc?
 

rblnr

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 3, 2010
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It was lent to me by a local dealer. He had it up on audiogon but it appears to be gone now.
 

marty

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Apr 20, 2010
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Who is this fool who tried to talk you out of analogue? Could it be that he tried to talk you out of it because even though LPs can indeed sound excellent, it is a medium better suited for the museum than your sound room? Could it be that there is a paucity of analogue recordings to buy that don't come from a limited collection catalogue someplace in the midwest that you have to mostly rely on for new recordings? In it there are certainly dozens of "great" examples of say, blues players who can listen to and which you would probably end up saying "ho-hum, let's move on"! Or perhaps there is material to choose from the selection of re-releases of stuff you didn't know you missed from 30 years ago that weren't all that well done to begin with? Maybe you received that advice because in DFW, there are tons of used record stores with huge selections of pristine used albums and your friend wanted to save all those for himself (he is very clever, your friend). Or, could it just be that he has heard your system and knows the future is all computer based hi-rez digital and the possibilities are mind-numbing compared to the paucity of choices you might have now for a few great hand-picked LPs on an expensive rig that will sound as good as the best of what's to come in hi-rez digital. If you had a collection of 1000 LPs that would be one thing. But remember, your friend didn't discourage you from going analogue, but rather questioned whether getting a big LP rig at this time was the way to do it. I'm sure you recall he said that the Tape Project material was arguably the finest sound source he has ever heard. I'm sure he would approve that acquisition!! After all, he does love to spend other people's money!! :) He frankly thinks getting a tube amplifier is a more satisfactory move towards audio nirvana than getting a SOA LP rig at this time in your audio endeavors!
 

BFlowers

Well-Known Member
Apr 23, 2010
103
15
923
Westlake Texas
Aha! My "friend" has decided to throw down the gauntlet. Ok, I give in for now. Mostly because my latest discovery/adjustment has improved my system beyond what I thought it capable of. Look out, high rez here I come.
 

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