Six Shooter + Marantz ud9004 / who needs HDMI anyway?

[Bulldogger]

I was very impressed with the Xtreme cards and this is one reason I thought the HDMI upgrade might still be a winner in the end. However, since the Marantz handily beats the Xtreme cards on two channel, I don't see how the outcome will be any different using 6 channels. Also, a have a Perfect Wave DAC that was part of the 3 way 2 channel shootout and the PWD bested the Marantz (by a small margin) but trounced the Xtreme cards. Only advantage of going through the CBIII + Xtreme is bass management. For some recordings crossing LF over to the subwoofer is beneficial - The CBIII does this better than the Marantz, and obviously using the PWD I cannot use my subwoofer. Still for 90% of recordings the PWD rules on 2 channel and the Marantz is a close second. The margin is small enough that if I did not need the PWD to convert computer audio files with the upcoming bridge, I would have happily just used the Marantz for all my sources and not use any outboard DAC.

What we are really discussing is NOT using a surround processor but rather a high-end blu-ray player and a multi-channel analog pre-amp. I have been making the points you make for years. However, in the end, most still seem to want a surround processor. If you want a surround processor, I believe the CBIII upgrade will be one of the best. If you want the best sound, a stand alone player and multi-channel analog pre-amp will win, be that the Audio Research MAP, EMM Labs Switchman or Theta Six Shooter. I certainly plan to try the new digital out card even if it is limited to 44/16. This may be a good compromise if you need post-processing and the cross-over options. Granted it may not sound as good as your approach but even at the lower resolution it may still sound better than any surround processor.

Are you using a sub in your set-up?

[Bulldogger]

Just for kicks I will try the Dolby Digital PL IIx mode with a 5.1 disc anyway and see if any sound comes out of my side surround channels. The manual clearly suggests you should be able to get 7.1 this way. I'll let you know.

Thanks!

[edorr]

What we are really discussing is NOT using a surround processor but rather a high-end blu-ray player and a multi-channel analog pre-amp. I have been making the points you make for years. However, in the end, most still seem to want a surround processor. If you want a surround processor, I believe the CBIII upgrade will be one of the best. If you want the best sound, a stand alone player and multi-channel analog pre-amp will win, be that the Audio Research MAP, EMM Labs Switchman or Theta Six Shooter. I certainly plan to try the new digital out card even if it is limited to 44/16. This may be a good compromise if you need post-processing and the cross-over options. Granted it may not sound as good as your approach but even at the lower resolution it may still sound better than any surround processor.

Are you using a sub in your set-up?

I am using a Revel B15 SW which has a build in equilizer and very accurate setup disk and calibrations software. This may be one reason I don't miss RoomEQ very much, since most EQ issues arise at low frequencies. Not sure why you would using the new digi out card - I presume you would want to use a 2 channel external DAC and run your other 6 channels (if you do 7.1) through the Xtreme cards. This would be beneficial if the outboard DAC in 44/16 bests the Xtremes in 96/24 which seems unlikely. Also, to get this to work you need a 2 channel volume control box which will set you back $700. In my view the new digi out card would only make sense if you use a CBIII + Gen Viii which will support 96/24 over the digi out card using proprietary protocol. May be I misunderstand what configuration you have in mind. All academic at this point anyway because the alledged card will come after HDMI so don't hold your breath.

[edorr]

Tried the Dolby Digital PL IIx mode on the UD9004 but had no luck. This mode only works if you set HDMI audio mode to multi channel, in which case the 7.1 analog outputs don't work (you need to set HDMI to 2 channel or mute in order to get 7.1 analog out). So I guess the DDD PL IIx mode works only on the HDMI outputs, giving you 7.1 LPCM output channels digitally from a 5.1 source. Strange design choice from Marantz if you ask me, but this is what they did.

[Bulldogger]

Not sure why you would using the new digi out card - I presume you would want to use a 2 channel external DAC and run your other 6 channels (if you do 7.1) through the Xtreme cards. This would be beneficial if the outboard DAC in 44/16 bests the Xtremes in 96/24 which seems unlikely.

All 7.1 channels out into external dacs into the Six Shooter. Six Shooter would control volume for all channels with no additional volume controls needed. I would only need the two channel volume control if I wanted to still try and use the Xtremes in combination with a single two channel dac. That's not the configuration I would do. DTS-MA and DD True HD movie tracks have few titles @ 96/24. I believe the masters are maybe 48/24 or even 44/16 for all of the blu-ray movies?

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Guys, with Theta's current repair problems and delay, delay, delay and not even any Compli Blus shipped, I think we should admit that the Theta we knew, luved and hoped for is DEAD beyond repair. Lets not waste time talking about the HDMI upgrade that never happened and isn't goin' to happen. But long live the Six Shooter!

[Bulldogger]

Edorr, not sure if you are using a universal remote. I use Pronto Pro remotes. The is a FREE module that allows two way control for the Denon blu-Ray players that will also work with your Marantz http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin...hread.cgi?1858

[Steve Bruzonsky]

Yes, I ordered and got a great deal, thanks to my industry contacts from my days moderating that "other" Special Guest Forum, on the Marantz UD9004. I should have it soon, into my Theta Six Shooter.

I have given up on Theta. There ain't gonna be any HDMI 1.3 upgrade. They've had several years of hype now and nothing to show. And the old Theta facilities are gone. Handwriting is on the wall.
The Bland and Nick were right all along.

But I will still enjoy the Six Shooter with the Marantz!!

[Bulldogger]

It remains to be seen what will happen at Theta. As long as the two major engineers are still working for the company, and most of the staff, anything remains possible. I will concede when those individuals are not working there. I am sure Kessler is not keeping the Theta staff employed out of the "goodness of his heart". Dave Kerstetter, the digital designer is still working for Theta as far as I know, though his role is listed as consultant. Kersetter is a former Sr. Design engineer from DTS and reworked the Gen VIII.

[LesAuber]

Idle speculation but I have to wonder how the Extremes would have come out against the analog IF Theta had actually got their DSD from the Compli to the CB released. Can't help but wonder if something isn't lost in the translation when DSD from a SACD is downconverted to SPDIF PCM and then sent to the CB. Oh well idle speculation as I say. Another Theta promise that didn't make it. Good thing the SS is so good.