Best single box cd player - any recommendations

Hi Emre,

I agree with you. Do you have access to MSB? Martin Colloms rates the DAC well beyond the Zanden, DCS Scarlatti...well beyond.

I know its not single-unit...but the Transport seems very, very interesting because it has true, long-term useability options. Specifically, the Transport takes every kind of digital input (plus does blu-ray)...and brings it into its solid state memory buffer and then sends thru a (supposedly) single-digit picosecond jitter digital signal out the other side. i2s into an MSB DAC.

Hello Emre,

A lot of great contributions to the thread

I'm only fleetingly acquainted with the Playback Designs products, but it's on my short list of one-box units. DSD is VERY good and rivals vinyl in my estimation...I hope it continues to evolve to be indistinguishable from an all-analog tape chain

I'm listening to an Esoteric P-0s and Audio Note DAC...plenty of cables...plenty of boxes

Istanbul...beautiful city, warm people, and delicious cuisine

Emre Üçöz said:

my only worry is that metronome is still using an old drive mechanism whereas esoteric ones are quite solid and becoming an industry wide standard

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Depends if you are interested in SACD, or the re-read ability of ROM drives now found in many other manufacturers.
I went with a metronome transport in the end because I wanted a product to also have a highly reliable and incredibly quiet transport mechanism-drive, the Philips Pro2-m will be around for awhile longer and I am sure there are parts stocked reasonly well.
One consideration and someone can correct me if I am wrong; the very best Esoteric drive mechanism is only used in their own reference transport, other manufacturers can only purchase the next one down in the tier (still not the entry one).
Choice of a transport for me came down to Esoteric/metronome/looking at those with ROM drive, I was put off the ROM drive mechanisms as I am still not sure of their long term reliability-noise from use-etc even though they have modern benefits of reading the CD multiple times to ensure read correctly and buffering system.

Emre, you have not mentioned why you are looking to change.
Is it a subtle dissatisfaction/fatigue/loss of enjoyment with the sound or more of a practical issue, or looking for a change?

Cheers
Orb

Agree with Orb...the Philips drive is excellent, time tested and well regarded among the pros with whom i've spoken.

lloydelee21 said:

Agree with Orb...the Philips drive is excellent, time tested and well regarded among the pros with whom i've spoken.

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Also agree on the Philips Pro drives quality. Another good thing in Europe is that the mechanisms are easily available as replacements and they share many parts - long after the CDM9 Pro was not available anymore, I could have my Forsell CD Air Transpor laser head fixed with parts from other Philips mechanisms.

Very good to know...

Orb said:

One consideration and someone can correct me if I am wrong; the very best Esoteric drive mechanism is only used in their own reference transport, other manufacturers can only purchase the next one down in the tier (still not the entry one).

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Per Charles Hansen Oct '09:

a) Their top level transport used in the UX-1 and variants. This is a beast. The disc motor is buried in the 12 mm thick steel top bridge, driving the disc from above. OEM cost is $4000, with a minimum purchase of 50 units ($200,000 total). But it is no longer available as the laser has been discontinued. Esoteric is saving the few left for their own products.

b) Their second level transport is very similar and is just scaled back a hair. The disc motor is still in the top, but it is scaled back to 10 mm. Still a great transport. OEM price is $3000. There are only two companies that use this. dCS uses it in the transport of their $60,000 stack and Spectral uses it in their 4000 model CD-only player.

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http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17447742#post17447742

More here (with photos): http://db.audioasylum.com/cgi/m.mpl?forum=hirez&n=242487

Good headsup RUR.
Cheers
Orb

Yes, and the fact that DCS and Spectral use them...says a lot to me.

Emre

you will love the Playback Designs

Emre Üçöz said:

I am on the verge of a decision wheter I should continue with transport+dac+clock or to switch to a one box cd player. Can I get your opinions on this.

My current digital configuration is Esoteric P-02+DCS Scarllati DAC+DCS Scarllati Clock.

Any comments on Burmester069, Soulution 5 and 7 series cd players, Metronome Kalista or any other digital single boxes vs separetes of Esoteric or DCS or MSB or EMM Labs?

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Emre,

Your digital front-end sounds already impressive!
So, according to my (limited) experience, I can say that when I auditioned the first Scarlatti set (it was a Top Audio show in Italy, a few years ago) I had the chance to compare it in the same system with a Spectral SDR-4000Pro. The rest of the system was Spectral DMC-30SS + DMA-250 and Magico Mini. I could play an excellent CD of a friend of mine (so, not a SACD) and we all had a slight preference for the Spectral player, maybe also thanks to the synergy with the rest of the system.
This notwithstanding, whether I could afford it, I wouldn't buy the Spectral player. If the not ability to play SACD is not an issue to me, the lack of digital inputs for a computer based system is a big thing in my opinion...
Accordingly, I would just look at machines that have digital inputs... there's actually plenty of, now. Playback Designs, Emm Labs, Esoteric, Accuphase, just to mention some. I've heard the latest Playback MDS-3 (so, DAC only), which, interfaced with Pure Music, allows an impressive flexibility in file standard reproduction. I trust the MPS-5, which adds the SACD reproduction, should be an impressive purchase.
But honestly, unless you'd have the chance to try the Playback (or whatever else) in your system, I'd not change your gear. I doubt your front-end could show some detectable defects, compared to any single-box player...

Emre,

I've just checked you have Soulution amplification. Maybe one of their players could outclass the competitors because of a synergy with the rest of your set-up...
I've heard wonderful things about the Burmester 069, owned by a friend of mine. Burmester is a brand I respect a lot. Honestly, I think that, at that level, the differences in digital front-ends should be really narrow...

My pleasure, Emre

Emre Üçöz said:

Sam, thanxs for the comments, i will be testing as well Playback design and also MSB (dac only not transport). by the way which cables are using btwn transport and dac?
Emre

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I'm using Tara Labs, The 0.8 Digital ISM onboard AES/EBU cable (110 ohms). I used a Transparent RAES (110 ohms), prior.

Emre Üçöz said:

Basically I have 2 reasons one is the itching factor the other is the advancements of mechanisms structure and mateials giving more silent and error free reading.

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Good to know, and as good a reason as most others
The Philips problem is usually with the lesser mech drives and not the Pro2-m, unusual if you have examples of the Pro2 as it is their top end heavy duty use model designed not just for consumer.
The Esoteric references are a great mech as well, and it gives you as mentioned dCS, Spectral and maybe these days one or two more companies.
Regarding better reading of the CD, ironically this would be the modern ROM drive based mechs such as found in Meridian and others (they will usually promote these with mention of their multiple read-buffer ability to ensure the data is read correctly).
The downside IMO is that these are not necessarily designed for a quiet audio environment and more orientated to PC world, so great for getting bit perfect data but potentially noisy and more of a worry to me is their reliability.
Only way to know for sure I guess is look at the Meridian/Ayre/etc, who are reputable and excellent engineering companies and could had dealt well with the noise and heavy use reliability concerns.
The audio manufacturers going this route are using a couple of different manufacturers, Sanyo is one but cannot remember the other few but probably Teac (that has links with Esoteric).
The following link is overkill as it provides a list of the various manufacturers and the mech drive they use, some may find it interesting.
http://diyaudio.web-log.nl/files/cd-player-dac-transport-list.pdf

Just a suggestion as you got the itch, it makes sense to add players that are different architectures as this gives a subtle long term preference change.
Examples are dCS with their RingDac, Ayre with their measure-listen filter setting,Chord Electronics Red2 with their 2048x oversampling and WTA filter, Audio Research CD8,possibly latest Wadia model,amongst the usual list that has been suggested.
Just food for thought and as you have the itch rather than suffering the fatigue-reduce listening and enjoyment, you have more of the luxury of taking time if you want to, within reason of course

At this level I feel it is more about long term personal preferences, albeit the uncertainty for me about the ROM drive but those named above that do use it are top engineering companies and have the edge that the ROM drive is the best at reading the CD.

Cheers
Orb