Final touch up for Studer A80 RC's modification;

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
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5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
In the modification of A80RC, I did the record amp with tubes and silver transformer first, at that time Electric Print Audio still got enough silver wire for the project and told me that will be all, he won't store anymore silver with today's price, so when I did the repro amp's mods that had no choice to use a copper transformer but still got a good result. after we asked Jack ( guy of Electric Print Audio ) to do something for the final pair of silver out put transformer, he finally made a really final pair with all the material that left and that is done for sure, no more! we paid $680 before and this final one is $1250, also with the silver price of today will charge for $2500. the total silver transformers used in this project is 6 out-put and two in-put, this project will out of mind if start today.
In calibrate, one of the two A80's left channel drop after 10K in recording, head and recording card both are OK because working fine in another machine, the only probability will be the cable to head problem, so far all the sound path are in silver except those head's cables (record & repro), we try to fix that problem at the same time did the final touch up to change all those cable to silver too, if you have the experience of up grade the tonearm cable to silver and this one here will have the same effect too. 4N 30 AWG silver will do the job price only $4/ft but you have to make the shielding by yourself, I wrap with aluminum foil as shielding but to install is a big job, with the help of Roger the serviceman still cost 2 hours for one machine, so many parts had to break away for installation ,
finally problem fixed and the recording system all in silver too, that will be end of this project, next is to find good tape for making copies.
tony ma
 

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RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
Hi Tony,

Looks like you went all out. You will have to give your impressions of the sound when it is up to speed,thanks for the photos.
 

c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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Luv it...THANKS for the pics :)
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
Hi Tony,

Looks like you went all out. You will have to give your impressions of the sound when it is up to speed,thanks for the photos.
Hi Roger
Those new cables need time to break in, but still, we found there are a really big different sound quality of the recording that recorded before and after the mods when we listen to those tapes with today's play back system, that gap we don't feel that big before, next week we are going to have another live event again, expect the recording will be the best in all time and our copy will come out soon
tony ma
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
Hi Tony,

You certainly like silver wound transformers. What are the benefit to these? If you could give some examples,ie increased clarity.

Roger
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
Hi Tony,

You certainly like silver wound transformers. What are the benefit to these? If you could give some examples,ie increased clarity.

Roger
Hi Roger
The benefit is not only clarity, hard to explain , in the process of the mods, I did not start with silver right away, every new idea I start is to use the copper first to see how it works, after make sure it is work fine then order the silver, so in every stage had some live recordings too like before mods ,copper out- put and silver out-put or stock copper in-put and replace to silver in-put etc. we listen back to those different time recording tapes to check the changes up to the project is done, now we think we don't want to keep those recordings without all in silver althought we can't record again with same guy in live but we still don't want to copy those recording because of sound quality's difference, it will be a wast, if you do ABX I am sure you won't like them too, maybe they will be good for some systems without compare but we try our best to send out the best quality copy to share with you friends
tony ma
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
Hi Roger
The benefit is not only clarity, hard to explain , in the process of the mods, I did not start with silver right away, every new idea I start is to use the copper first to see how it works, after make sure it is work fine then order the silver, so in every stage had some live recordings too like before mods ,copper out- put and silver out-put or stock copper in-put and replace to silver in-put etc. we listen back to those different time recording tapes to check the changes up to the project is done, now we think we don't want to keep those recordings without all in silver althought we can't record again with same guy in live but we still don't want to copy those recording because of sound quality's difference, it will be a wast, if you do ABX I am sure you won't like them too, maybe they will be good for some systems without compare but we try our best to send out the best quality copy to share with you friends
tony ma

Hi Tony,

Interesting, I wish lundahl made a comparable silver wire transformer,I would try it on my Ampex. I have found that upgrading tape electronics can yield great improvements,over the stock electronics. I think your approach with the Studer is the right one. The Ampex is different as the electonics are all discrete and very straight foward. The Studers,especially the A820 series are much more complicated,although there is a upgrade path for the stock electronics. The A80 series might be better but serious users tend to build custom electronics.
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
Hi Tony,

Interesting, I wish lundahl made a comparable silver wire transformer,I would try it on my Ampex. I have found that upgrading tape electronics can yield great improvements,over the stock electronics. I think your approach with the Studer is the right one. The Ampex is different as the electonics are all discrete and very straight foward. The Studers,especially the A820 series are much more complicated,although there is a upgrade path for the stock electronics. The A80 series might be better but serious users tend to build custom electronics.
Roger
Don't change too much in one time, watching each improvement is the big moment for enjoy
tony ma
 

RogerD

VIP/Donor
May 23, 2010
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BiggestLittleCity
Hi Tony,

Now that you have much listening done and recording with silver transformers,what is their best qualities? I still would like to build a silver set of electronics for my 440 and Lundahl is now producing silver transformers on some models. The cost would be 1600 for the pair. Not bad if they really do improve the sound on playback.

Roger
 

tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
Hi Tony,

Now that you have much listening done and recording with silver transformers,what is their best qualities? I still would like to build a silver set of electronics for my 440 and Lundahl is now producing silver transformers on some models. The cost would be 1600 for the pair. Not bad if they really do improve the sound on playback.

Roger
Hi Roger
I am just back from Hong Kong, In A80 the big different between stock and mods is the transparency, that is very importance in making copies, you can just change the out put part of the repro amp you will find the different
tony ma
 

yjwu

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
78
12
913
Taipei, Taiwan, Republic of China
Hello Tony:

I do not own any of A80 series machines. Just being curious: In STUER head catalog a number of heads were available. .216 for Vacodur; .316 for Recovac; .317 for Hy Mu 800. Although magnetic heads with the same last three digits in their catalog number were manufactured under the same process, hence the same inductance and head gaps, e.g. 1.216.028/029 - 1.316.120/225 - 1.317.120/225; 1.216.38/39 - 1.316.130/235 - 1.317.130/235, is there any difference in setting parameters for optimum recording/reproducing? Another peculiar point: the inductance of magnetic heads in A80 VU mk-II is about 10mH, recording and reproduce; normally the winding for reproduce head should be higher, thus higher inductance, isn't it? Why? Later production of STUDER's magnetic heads included .318 Vitrovac amorphous heads as an option. None of A80 series machines caught that wave of magnetic heads updating. Will your modified A80/RC benefit from .318 amorphous heads? .318 magnetic heads were used in STUDER A820, A812, A807, A816 and modified A810's.

Best regards,

Y.-J. Wu

Those for alignment, final check by ear
tony ma
 
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tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
Hi YJ
We all use butterfly head and I don't play with different heads because I don't know them well, here we have Roger the Studer serviceman who can relap head for us, one done can last more than 10 years in non-pro use, A80 RC and VR deck is the same but amp is different, RC's amp is set in under, closer to the head but VR's amp is up in the bridge long way from heads so it's head is 10mh (for less pick up hum) and a step up transformer (1 to 10 extra gain for the 10mh head ) in amp's input. RC's amp is exactly same of B62 but in different head, A810's amp is more like A80 VR ( use more IC) design, this is all I know about Studer but I know that just change the sound path cap or bypass cap of the repro amp will come up in different sound quality that is the way of my modification.
last year I visited Taipei twice Feb and Nov maybe next time can meet you there I hope
tony ma
 

yjwu

Well-Known Member
Jun 28, 2011
78
12
913
Taipei, Taiwan, Republic of China
Hi Tony?

Thank you for your quick reply. So the repro head to the first stage of preamp is very critical. That in A80/RC was of shorter length so higher inductance won't pick up too much hum. Low inductance of VR's repro head is needed to minimize the pick up in a longer path, the less emf was boosted by an 1:10 step-up transformer, just like MC v.s. MM in phono pickup. Similarily, a direct tape head output to external electronics would also benefit from
lower inductance repro head, e.g. .316.027, with an 1:10 step-up before 1st pre-amp.
Wish to see you in Taipei in the near future!

Best regards,

Y.-J. Wu
 
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tony ky ma

Industry Expert
Aug 21, 2010
630
5
930
Whitby Ontario Canada
still not the final yet

We thought that is the best A80RC sound after modification (with tube output and silver cable from head) at that time. recently there were some mystery noise occasionally in dubbing copies but we can't find where they from , so we did change all the old by-pass caps to brand new one in the repro amp broad . end up it sound clean but too clean sound like CD less of emotion and too cool compare to before. then we found that those by-pass caps will give a big change to the sound quality too not only the coupling cap does (source is front end of the system any change will have bigger different than others of the system) so we first changed C18 and C30 to Tantalum instead of the stock electrolytic, this sounded great and next we changed 47mf to 100mf had even more better, but after we added a 6mf and 0.5 mf oil cap and also a 0.05 MITcap to the 100mf Tantalum that result is unbelievable, hard to tell the difference by me but you can feel that from our new copies compare to the old one so still not the final yet
pictures show stock's electrolytic and new tantalum + add on cap
tony ma
 

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c1ferrari

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
May 15, 2010
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^^^
Tony, you're having too much fun :D
 
Jan 18, 2012
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Drobak Norway
but the fun is rewarded imo
I just wrote to Ed that I was surprised by the increased crispness, resolution and clarity in the Waldstein tape
and then there it was again in the Genius of Bethooven tape
20 min ago I asked him by mail what they had done
sounds as if even lower noise floor increases transparency and detailing
very similar result as when I´ve bypassed other caps with MKP1837 from Vishay/Roederstein
very impressive and even more enganging recordings of stellar performances
keep up the good work and I´ll keep up buying...
best
Leif
 
Jan 18, 2012
2,323
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Drobak Norway
so you´re obviously tapping signal by R47 after first stage and eq, like I did before I went all Todor way
C18 and C30 I use Nichicon Muse BP
C4 and C5 I use BG N
 

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