Pricing of REF5 vs REF3

ulf

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Aug 9, 2010
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i have read some posts that says that REF5 is made more simply than ref3. Fewer parts, easier solutions etc and that it should cost less than ref3 even if it sounds better and that to the benefit of the audio world.
A skilled technician I know who has looked inside both ref5 and ref3 say the same.
So why not 8000USD for ref5 insted of 12.000USD.
On the other hand a ARC local agent says it has new technology that cost more to develop and produce.
Any comments?
 

mep

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New technology in a tube preamp almost sounds like an oxymoron. Unless the new technology is in the digital housekeeping side of things, I can’t imagine what new technology there would be in a tube based circuit.
 

mep

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By all accounts the Ref 5 was a lateral move from the Ref3 with very little differences between the 2

Well that would be a bummer. You buy a Ref 3 for $10K, sell it for around $5400 and buy a Ref 5 for $12K, and the sound is about the same.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Well that would be a bummer. You buy a Ref 3 for $10K, sell it for around $5400 and buy a Ref 5 for $12K, and the sound is about the same.

I have a few friends that went from the Ref3 to the Ref5 and weren't all that thrilled.
 

ulf

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Anyone have experience of comparing ref3/5 to the Anniversary pre?
 

mep

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I have a few friends that went from the Ref3 to the Ref5 and weren't all that thrilled.

If what you said is true, it's no wonder they weren't thrilled. I'd say they must feel like they were taken.
 

microstrip

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I have a few friends that went from the Ref3 to the Ref5 and weren't all that thrilled.

Steve,
Well, I owned the REF3 and moved to the REF5. The REF5 had all the good things of the REF3, and a much better bass control, definition and attack. Depending of speakers, amplifier and owner preferences this could be an important aspect. Treble of the REEF5 was also more focused. But if I already knew about the Anniversary maybe I would have skipped the REF5.
 

ulf

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There are at least 3 versions of the ref 3.
First batch with a different set of (inferior) tubes.
Then- I think the most common- with the present set of tubes.
Then the last batch was a Lim Ed with some changes and very good sound. Some of my audiophile friends made a shootout with this REF3LE and a REF5 and the sound was very very similar.

Is it true that only 100 aniv pre will be made?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
There was a rolling factory line change shortly after the release of the Ref3 where they installed bypass caps. I recall this as soon after I bought it I had to return it for installation of the bypass caps. I would be certain that the unit has this and then be certain you have the tubes you want
 

Orb

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Is there any point in purchasing a 2nd hand Ref3 if the LS27 is as good?
Not saying it is, but there has been a lot of posts in other forums from owners of Audio Research equipment and some reviews to suggest it may be.

Anyone here had a chance to compare both?
Cheers
 

microstrip

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There are at least 3 versions of the ref 3.
First batch with a different set of (inferior) tubes.
Then- I think the most common- with the present set of tubes.
Then the last batch was a Lim Ed with some changes and very good sound. Some of my audiophile friends made a shootout with this REF3LE and a REF5 and the sound was very very similar.

Is it true that only 100 aniv pre will be made?

AFAIK, the Anniversary was supposed to be manufactured only during one year, interdependently of the number of units. Audio Research uses a code for the serial numbers, that are not sequential, so you have to ask them for the total number of units . Our dealer told me it was an huge success - he got several last minute orders.
 

Orb

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Yeah Microstrip the dealer I use also had good success and now only has is own demo unit left.

Cheers
Orb
 

ulf

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Aug 9, 2010
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I asked the local ARC agent if ther are any aniv pre in Sweden that I can test and he says maybe.....
Or perhaps I should not because I don t think I can afford it (better not know whats you are missing)
Steve have you compared it to your Lamm pre?
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I asked the local ARC agent if ther are any aniv pre in Sweden that I can test and he says maybe.....
Or perhaps I should not because I don t think I can afford it (better not know whats you are missing)
Steve have you compared it to your Lamm pre?

not head to head but IMO both are excellent preamps. Don't forget that mine is dual mono with dual separate power supplies so 4 boxes and biggest negative is no remote as Vladimir Lamm won't ever make his preamps with a remote as he feels it causes degradation of the signal.
 

Orb

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Ulf, have you listened to the LS27?
While not being on par with the Ref 5 it has comparable performance to the Ref 3 (appreciate this does not necessarily mean it has as good audio quality).
Also benefit of the LS27 over Ref 3 is three different gain settings, sorry if I got that wrong on the Ref 3 just going by what I have read from others.

Cheers
Orb
 

rblnr

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Vladimir Lamm won't ever make his preamps with a remote as he feels it causes degradation of the signal

Never understood why a motorized mechanism would degrade the signal.
 

rblnr

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wonder why though, motors can be off/on'd, so when it's on maybe (noise), but why when it's off? Or even if you can't fully 'off it' for some reason, seems some simple shielding would do the trick.

There used to be little external IR boxes you could buy with a motor and wheel -- could attach it to a volume knob. Anyway, I'm pretty adamant about remote volume (or IOW, getting up :)) so I'd struggle with that.
 

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