Vtl 7.5 Mk II to III upgrade

Opsman

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Jul 16, 2011
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The VTL 7.5 II linestage is an outstanding preamp. In my system, it replaced a Lyra Connoisseur 4.2SE.
Having recently had my 7.5II upgraded to "III" status — thanks to Bea Lam for a smooth process — I am writing to avow that the 7.5III is a superb preamp!
The first thing I noticed was a substantial increase in dynamics across the audio spectrum, and at both low and high gain levels; e.g., Liszt piano pieces. I'm getting ahead of myself here, but, given its combination of characteristics, the III might make you think that you hadn't heard a real piano before, except live, of course, and in row C (where you can feel the soundboard).
Transients are faster, much faster, and more musically natural, without splatter, buzz, or compression that otherwise masks the note/s of transients are comprised. (I would not have said that the II was slow, nor that the II did any of the sonic nasties above, but......)
Bass: The II had always provided deep bass on my Wilson Audio Alexandrias (driven by VTL Siegfrieds), with natural bloom, particularly on acoustic bass. The III provides more bass impact and sustain. This, along with the characteristics described above and below, allow the listener to follow bass lines more easily. Indeed, "follow" is the wrong verb: you don't "follow" bass lines, the bass lines "move" the music (and you).
Treble is more extended. This, in combination with the characteristics described above and below, provides improved articulation: melodic, rhythmic, and harmonic lines that had been blurred are revealed. And, again, in combination, etc., the overall presentation is more life like.
Although I would not have described the II to be colored — remember that it replaced a Connoisseur 4.2SE — the III provides more natural musical color, particularly on voice, piano, violin, oboe, and clarinet. And, speaking of voice, male vocals are more solid and robust while female vocals are more extended and nuanced.
Soundstage: The II provided an excellent soundstage; the III's is a bit wider and deeper.
My listening notes include a couple of "blacker background?" question marks, but I haven't yet been able to discipline myself to listen for blackness. I think the III has blacker backgrounds, but, at least for the time being, I am (gladly) getting distracted by all the great sonics described here.
Any negatives? Not that I am aware.
Finally, a guilty pleasure: I like to listen loud when the music calls for it; e.g., "Crown Imperial" and "Let It Bleed" in high resolution digital. The way the III unravels musical lines (served up by a Mac G5 through a Weiss 202) and rocks the room is awesome.
So, is the VTL 7.5 III the best linestage in the world? I have no idea. Besides, I had thought that the Connoisseur was the best linestage in the world, and it got replaced with a 7.5 II.
What I can say is this: If you are lucky enough to own a 7.5 II, then contact your dealer immediately and get in line for the III upgrade. It isn't cheap, but it is worth it. And, if you own a linestage that you believe is the "best", then you owe it to yourself to audition a III.
 

Opsman

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Jul 16, 2011
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Price of ii to III upgrade

I believe that it is currently $8K, and must be arranged through a dealer, hence my advice to contact a VTL dealer.
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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I believe that it is currently $8K, and must be arranged through a dealer, hence my advice to contact a VTL dealer.

Wow.
 

FrantzM

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Hi

OT

This is square in line with now clearly accepted High End Audio Practices ... Nothing unusual.. Bringing the price closer to their competitor offerings .. Same "Class Price" and all that ;)
 

mep

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$8K will buy you one hell of a preamp new or used. $8K to *upgrade* an expensive preamp seems a bit over the top. This is the preamp that keeps on getting more SS isn't it? I guess in for a penny in for a pound.
 

Opsman

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Jul 16, 2011
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VTL 7.5 II to III upgrade

Pardon me. I am new to this group.

I thought that this group was supposed to be about "What's Best?" not, "That seems like a lot." or "8K will buy a very good linestage (or something like that)". Yes, it is a lot; and $8K will buy a very good linestage. What do either of these assertions have to do with "what's best"?
 

FrantzM

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Apr 20, 2010
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Will leave out in a few minutes... Whats's best does not necessarily equate to what's cost more. If $8 K can buy a competitive line stage then the references to the rather stiff cost to the upgrade are valid.

I am not a VTL owner so I am retreating from the debate.
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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This is the preamp that keeps on getting more SS isn't it? I guess in for a penny in for a pound.

Actually no, it's a step in the opposite direction. It's more organic and also more refined. While this unit is actually a hybrid, the DNA seems more balanced between both topology's virtues now. To me the older leaned more on its SS side.
 

mep

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Jack-I'm well aware that it is a hybrid preamp. It has more SS components than tubes doesn't it?
 

microstrip

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Jack-I'm well aware that it is a hybrid preamp. It has more SS components than tubes doesn't it?

Mep,
Yes. But a single triode per stage in the gain section is enough to counterbalance all the negative effects of the SS devices ...:rolleyes:

It is a mystery why VTL still does not list it in their site - they still have the mkII version in the product range. Does any one know if they are going to improve the Siegfried?
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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Pardon me. I am new to this group.

I thought that this group was supposed to be about "What's Best?" not, "That seems like a lot." or "8K will buy a very good linestage (or something like that)". Yes, it is a lot; and $8K will buy a very good linestage. What do either of these assertions have to do with "what's best"?

Me thinks the gentleman has a point!
 

JackD201

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Apr 20, 2010
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Jack-I'm well aware that it is a hybrid preamp. It has more SS components than tubes doesn't it?

If we're talking about number of tubes (2) vs the number of output transistors. It might be dead even if it's a 2 stage device. :) I didn't mean to imply you didn't know. I think I misunderstood. I thought what you meant by getting more SS was the sound not the construction.
 

mep

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Me thinks the gentleman has a point!

If the multitudes annoited this preamp as "the best," than I would agree he has a point. It was already an expensive preamp with whatever claims it had to make as being "the best." Sending it in to have it upgraded at a mere $8K to make it *more better* just raised an eyebrow on this end. People quesetion every belief system on this forum. If I introduced my mother on this forum, someone might ask to see her birth certificate and mine and ask for a DNA sample.

This preamp has gone through mutiple iterations (thus the MKI, MKII, and MKIII). I can't remember if it started off with 12AX7 tubes and switched to 12AU7 tubes or if it was vice-versa. The latest version added more SS components and the tubes remained the same I believe. Whether this preamp deserves to be named as among the best preamps available is not the issue. This is not about What's Best, it's about what is a fair price to pay for an *upgrade.*
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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If the multitudes annoited this preamp as "the best," than I would agree he has a point. It was already an expensive preamp with whatever claims it had to make as being "the best." Sending it in to have it upgraded at a mere $8K to make it *more better* just raised an eyebrow on this end. People quesetion every belief system on this forum. If I introduced my mother on this forum, someone might ask to see her birth certificate and mine and ask for a DNA sample.

It cost me $8000 to update my ART from Series 1 to 3. I didn't hold that against cj--and I consider it one of the best preamps ever made. Basically, cj only retained the chassis and totally replaced all the boards and parts. I have to assume the VTL is doing something similar. And from what I heard, the new series 3 VTL 450 and 7.5 coupled with the TAD speakers (and analog source of course), was the best sound at this years CES. Very, very quiet, very resolving and very musical.

This preamp has gone through mutiple iterations (thus the MKI, MKII, and MKIII). I can't remember if it started off with 12AX7 tubes and switched to 12AU7 tubes or if it was vice-versa. The latest version added more SS components and the tubes remained the same I believe. Whether this preamp deserves to be named as among the best preamps available is not the issue. This is not about What's Best, it's about what is a fair price to pay for an *upgrade.*

Let's see :) ARC, cj and VTL have changed their circuitry over the years. cj got rid of the cathode followers in the GAT and replaced it with a MOSFET. I had both the GAT and ART here and it was no contest: the GAT won hands down. That wasn't the case when I had the ACT2 series 1 in. There the ART series 3 won hands down. Just could never warm up to the Series 1 ACT2. I seem to remember when ARC preamps went to one tube (was it the SP15???) and most claimed that it was just for show :) So I've found that one can't be wedded to one technology as you've found out with the PL amps! Same for tt with different drives systems nowadays. Gotta just keep an open mind and listen and let the cards fall where they may.
 

mep

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It cost me $8000 to update my ART from Series 1 to 3. I didn't hold that against cj--and I consider it one of the best preamps ever made. Basically, cj only retained the chassis and totally replaced all the boards and parts. I have to assume the VTL is doing something similar. And from what I heard, the new series 3 VTL 450 and 7.5 coupled with the TAD speakers (and analog source of course), was the best sound at this years CES. Very, very quiet, very resolving and very musical.

With preamps, the more solid state and less tubes you have, noise figures seem to get better.

Let's see :) ARC, cj and VTL have changed their circuitry over the years. cj got rid of the cathode followers in the GAT and replaced it with a MOSFET.

Again, a tube was replaced with a SS device.

I had both the GAT and ART here and it was no contest: the GAT won hands down. That wasn't the case when I had the ACT2 series 1 in. There the ART series 3 won hands down. Just could never warm up to the Series 1 ACT2. I seem to remember when ARC preamps went to one tube (was it the SP15???) and most claimed that it was just for show :)

Actually, it was the SP-14. It had one tube in the phono stage. The line stage was pure SS. I owned this preamp and it was white, bright, and light and I sent it packing.

So I've found that one can't be wedded to one technology as you've found out with the PL amps! Same for tt with different drives systems nowadays. Gotta just keep an open mind and listen and let the cards fall where they may.

I couldn’t agree more Myles. That is exactly what I’m doing and I’m surprised where the cards are falling. I never thought I would own a DD turntable and now I have the Technics SP-10. I never thought I would own a pivoted arm again and now I own an SME 312S. I never thought I would own any SS preamps or power amps and I have both currently.
 

MylesBAstor

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Apr 20, 2010
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With preamps, the more solid state and less tubes you have, noise figures seem to get better.

Changing the cathode follower in the GAT also reduced the preamplifier's output impedance to 100 ohms in the GAT; by comparison, the ART's output impedance was 500 ohms. According to Lew, this should make the GAT less sensitive to ICs.
 

mep

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Changing the cathode follower in the GAT also reduced the preamplifier's output impedance to 100 ohms in the GAT; by comparison, the ART's output impedance was 500 ohms. According to Lew, this should make the GAT less sensitive to ICs.

That is true. Without a cathode follower in a preamp circuit, the output impedance is very high and ICs have to be kept very short in order to prevent high frequency roll-off. Replacing the cathode follower wth a buffered SS device further drops the impedance and allow for much longer ICs to the power amp.
 

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