MSB Diamond DAC and Universal Media Transport

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Has anyone heard this? just came across the martin colloms review of the mid-level DAC which showed a record quality 200 on CD on his ranking levels.

i am more interested in the Universal Media Transport...i have emailed MSB to ask what the benefit of this is for hard drive-based music. ie, why go computer thru the MSB universal media transport other than for re-clocking, and perhaps buffering and having the right output connectors for your DAC?

i have Zanden dac and am wondering how this UMTransport would compare to other SOTA transports (like the Zanden)...and how much a computer drive would benefit from this. any thoughts are appreciated!!!
 

hiroshige

Member
Feb 13, 2011
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Has anyone heard this? just came across the martin colloms review of the mid-level DAC which showed a record quality 200 on CD on his ranking levels.

i am more interested in the Universal Media Transport...i have emailed MSB to ask what the benefit of this is for hard drive-based music. ie, why go computer thru the MSB universal media transport other than for re-clocking, and perhaps buffering and having the right output connectors for your DAC?

i have Zanden dac and am wondering how this UMTransport would compare to other SOTA transports (like the Zanden)...and how much a computer drive would benefit from this. any thoughts are appreciated!!!

I have the MSB DAV IV Platinum (model that was reviewed) but not the transport. I was interested in the transport because it allows connection with the DAC IV via its I2S interface and it plays almost every disc format out there. In addition, it allows UPNP/DNLA streaming. One thing to be wary about is the transport is based on the Oppo BDP-93 which has had some issues with playback via UPNP/DNLA which Oppo admits is very much in beta form (i.e. kinks not worked out). Ultimately I decided against it since it only allows playback of movies in 2 channel and the need to have a display connected to the transport in order to utilize playback off of the hard drive or streaming. Never heard it though so can't provide much feedback there.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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thanks...that is good to know. what did you compare the msb DAC to before you bought it? Curious to get a sense of the quality via a comparison to other digital equipment. i have heard Emm CDSA, DCS Scarlatti, Zanden, ARC CD5, 7, 8, Krell 505, Wadia 7.
 

hiroshige

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Feb 13, 2011
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thanks...that is good to know. what did you compare the msb DAC to before you bought it? Curious to get a sense of the quality via a comparison to other digital equipment. i have heard Emm CDSA, DCS Scarlatti, Zanden, ARC CD5, 7, 8, Krell 505, Wadia 7.

I owned Weiss DAC202, Metric Halo ULN-8, Audio Research DAC 8 , PS Audio PWD, Weiss DAC2, EMU 0404, and TADAC. I got to listen to the Berkeley Alpha DAC for a weekend at my home. Auditioned Linn and Classe CP-800 at my local dealer but both on Wilson Sasha's which I'm not too familiar with and proved to be useless since it was impossible to tell the dacs contribution to the system. I really wanted to try out the Playback Designs and DCS equipment but either I didn't have a preamplifier at the time or I didn't want to find out how good it was since it went past my already stretched budget. Fun times but I can honestly say I am done for long time.
 

Nicholas Bedworth

WBF Founding Member
May 7, 2010
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Maui, where else?
I've both the Signature DAC IV and UMT in house... The DAC is certainly up there in terms of sound quality, no doubt about that. Will be doing listening comparisons between the Weiss DAC 202 ($7), Signature DAC IV ($20K), and the Trinity DAC ($70K). My general assessment is that the sequence is pretty much good, better, best, and that "even" the good product level is very, very good.

To get the most out of any of these DACs, it will take really nice Class A electronics, such as the Pass XA series. Most of the Class AB amps, even the very expensive ones, while they certainly have numerous virtues, don't quite do it for me with respect to natural renditions of strings.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Thanks, Nicholas. I have had some experience listening to older pure Class A Krell, Boulder's more recent Class A amps. i also currently own the Gryphon Antileon which i really enjoy. as i read up more about the UMT from MSB, the more i am intrigued. i have spoken with them directly last nite, and it seems their (claim) is that they effectively read any source...buffer the data into SS memory and reclock...so effectively you get super low jitter out of any source from their UMt...and because it is based on an Oppo drive, the UMT also allows users to watch movies.

I think my 2 concerns are: quality of the interface to drive a network storage device using the mSB...i am not super demanding...but do wnat something plug and play and intuitive to use (ipod is excellent for this of course), and also is there something here i am missing that is going to end up making this product obsolete or somehow incompatible with sources, music saved in certain formats, etc? i dont expect it to last forever, but it would be silly if for some technical reason i bought it, and found out 18 months later i wanted to use 2 types of sources that somehow did not work with Umt.

Look forward to your feedback when you've done your comparisons. thanks again.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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and of course, my main interest will be if you think their UMT stacks up well against Esoteric, MBL, Metronome, Zanden, high-end media servers and other SOTA transports/digital delivery forms.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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I wonder if the I2S interface on the MSB Dac is compatible with the I2S output of the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ? If it is, it will make me more interested in this dac. I only need to playback CD's and Hi-rez pcm files burned to DVD. I have no SACD, nor do I plan to get into that format so I would like to use my ps audio transport with it via I2S. Anyone know ?
 

hiroshige

Member
Feb 13, 2011
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I wonder if the I2S interface on the MSB Dac is compatible with the I2S output of the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ? If it is, it will make me more interested in this dac. I only need to playback CD's and Hi-rez pcm files burned to DVD. I have no SACD, nor do I plan to get into that format so I would like to use my ps audio transport with it via I2S. Anyone know ?

Hi Rockitman,

I believe they are different. I had a Sonore Linux music server customized with the MSB Xport card (to utilize the I2S) so I could output I2S to the Dac IV. I remember that Jesus at Sonore said it was similar to the PWD I2S implementation but not identical. I also believe MSB uses Cat 5 Cable to carry the I2S signal and PWD Transport a HDMI cable but you should check with Jesus. He builds music servers with both I2S implementations so he would know. sonorejr@gmail.com

Hope this helps.
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I wonder if the I2S interface on the MSB Dac is compatible with the I2S output of the PS Audio Perfect Wave Transport ? If it is, it will make me more interested in this dac. I only need to playback CD's and Hi-rez pcm files burned to DVD. I have no SACD, nor do I plan to get into that format so I would like to use my ps audio transport with it via I2S. Anyone know ?

Hi Rockitman. i have checked this before. PS Audio HDMI i2s will work with its own DAC plus the Stahl-Tek Vekian/Vekian Opus DAC. the MSB DAC is proprietary...and while they will consider customizing the i2s interface, it takes a number of months and is not inexpensive to do.
 

hvbias

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Jun 22, 2012
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I heard the Signature DAC4 and it was some of the best digital I have heard; great flow without losing resolution. Can anyone tell me what the differences are in moving up to Platinum and Diamond (subjective sound quality, not specs)? Thanks
 

rockitman

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Sep 20, 2011
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Is MSB the best as far as PCM playback is concerned ? My concern with Playback Designs (another consideration), every input is converted to DSD. That's alot of conversion going on. Makes me wonder how real it could sound.... MSB can play native or upsample, correct ? I find with my PS Audio Perfect Wav (I2S) that native sounds better than upsampling. Perhaps it's the SRC implementation. As good as the PS Audio is, especially for the $$$, I do wonder how much more I can get out of PCM. I have no desire to get into SACD.

* My other issue, how to get a chance to hear these things. I have said it before, dealer's expect us to buy these things based on their word with no ability to test the unit in our own systems. No demo option like many Pass Labs dealers do. So here we are, expected to shell out $30K + for a MSb Diamond stack w/o hearing it first in our own systems. This is a real business model problem. I bet dealers who are willing to purchase a unit for themselves to lend out on auditions would sell alot more of said unit. If I were a dealer, that would be my business model. When a new mode comes out, you sell the demo. I would be selling units like hot cakes.
 

hvbias

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2012
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New England area
The MSB uses custom built R2R DACs, not an off the shelf delta sigma part. In my opinion R2R like Burr Brown PCM1704 or PCM63 sound more natural than any delta sigma DAC I have listened to. The MSB takes it even further than those two by improving noise floor and resolution.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Will the MSB Universal Transport read/play Hi-Rez PCM files burned to DVD using the UDF 1.5 or later format/protocall ? This is how I burn and playback files using my PS Audio Perfect Wav transport. I have alot of these. It would be nice to know if they are compatible with MSB's transport...One less stumbling block on the road to MSB...
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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Will the MSB Universal Transport read/play Hi-Rez PCM files burned to DVD using the UDF 1.5 or later format/protocall ? This is how I burn and playback files using my PS Audio Perfect Wav transport. I have alot of these. It would be nice to know if they are compatible with MSB's transport...One less stumbling block on the road to MSB...

the MSB Universal Transport is a super-hot rodded Oppo Blu-Ray player...with separate powersupply, new buffer, and other things...i'm no techie. Bottom line, it should do everything an oppo can do...which should include dvd-a, blu-ray, cd, sacd...and because it is proprietary out to its own DAC...i believe the i2s should take the sacd signal too...please check on this, but it should work since its effectively remaining encrypted. I know you said no sacd, but it is part of the UMT.
 

rockitman

Member Sponsor
Sep 20, 2011
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Hi Lloyd. I have been studying their site more. The Universal uses the stock Oppo 93 drive. Their CD IV uses a rom reader of their choice. They said from a redbook CD playback standpoint, their CD IV sounds better than their hot rodded Oppo 93 Universal. To take advantage of their I2S bit perfect connection bewteen trans and dac, you need to buy thier signature CD IV. The advantage of I2S is that the player clock is slaved to the dac DAC.
 

LL21

Well-Known Member
Dec 26, 2010
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Hi Lloyd. I have been studying their site more. The Universal uses the stock Oppo 93 drive. Their CD IV uses a rom reader of their choice. They said from a redbook CD playback standpoint, their CD IV sounds better than their hot rodded Oppo 93 Universal. To take advantage of their I2S bit perfect connection bewteen trans and dac, you need to buy thier signature CD IV. The advantage of I2S is that the player clock is slaved to the dac DAC.

That sounds right to me...it has been a while since i looked thru their site and also spoke to one of their engineers on the phone about a proprietary i2s link up to my Zanden. i was going to use the UMT but when he told me how much better the CD IV was...i decided not to get too clever, and keep it simple.

Would be very interested in your opinion if you hear the MSB stuff...speak with ARnie (he is here...and Babybear on Audiogon...Arrakis speakers, SOTA system and the full MSB digital complement.
 

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