S&V Experiment: one 15, two 12, or four 8 inch subs

terryj

New Member
Jul 4, 2010
512
0
0
bathurst NSW
It sure did. Thanks!

So there's no need to have an active system with the ability to turn off mid and tweet. Just limiting the maximum frequency of the sweep to 100-200 Hz causes the displayed impulse response of the mains to be brick-wall filtered to that frequency.

A neat trick!

well yes, I am pretty sure you got it but just want to make sure, that figure of 100-200 hz would vary I guess depending on the range of the bass drivers in the speaker in question.
'
One last quick point (then you can all have blessed silence from me haha) is that I run steep slopes, slopes that cannot be achieved passively. So there will inevitably be some bleed thru from the mid in the sweep.

That may confound things slightly, but on balance I'd say it would still be closer than not having done the sweep.

Hoping mark will add corrections/new points I have not considered before.
 

andy_c

Well-Known Member
Sep 24, 2010
189
0
921
www.andyc.diy-audio-engineering.org
Just by the by, it may be important to know the setup a little. I run my mains full range, and low pass the subs at 70 hz or so at something like 70 db/octave.

Are you using the DCX2496 for this low-pass function? I'm looking in its manual, and the options it shows for filters are as follows (sect. 4.5.2 of the manual):

  1. Butterworth (with a slope of either 6, 12, 18, 24 or 48 dB/oct)
  2. Bessel (with a slope of either 12 or 24 dB/oct)
  3. Linkwitz-Riley (with a slope of either 12, 24 or 48 dB/oct)

Not trying to give you a hard time here, just trying to figure out the actual setup.
 

Hear Here

Well-Known Member
Feb 14, 2020
735
432
155
Portsmouth, UK
I'd not noticed this ancient thread before today. Without having ploughed through all the comments, theory and measurement graphs, etc, I'd be interested to go back to the thread title - "S&V Experiment: one 15, two 12, or four 8 inch subs" and ask simply –

If your bass (from main speakers or subs) is to be delivered by one of these driver options, which is likely to be the most satisfactory sound-wise?

My own choice is probably the 2 x 12" drivers. 15" ones tend to be rather "slow" and 8" ones are struggling to reach the lowest frequencies people think they need.

Many (probably most) "full-range" floor standers have moved from large bass drivers to multiple smaller ones over the last 2 or 3 decades, and I suspect this may be why many audiophiles are resorting to subs - a regrettable development in my view. Better to buy speakers with adequate bass up front that don't need subs. Leave subs to the AV crowd!

I've never owned subs, but my own speakers (with the exception of my ATC 50 Actives that I didn't much like) have all had twin 10" or twin 12" drivers per channel, although my very first speakers (home-built Wharfedale Airedales in the 1960s) had single 15" drivers – but these were perhaps their least good feature.

So, what do others favour - single 15", twin 12" (or maybe twin 10”), or 4 x 8"? Just your hunch, no verbose theories please! Peter
 
Last edited:

christoph

Well-Known Member
Dec 11, 2015
4,659
4,058
825
Principality of Liechtenstein
Old thread, initially quoted article link is broken, here's a working one: LINK

Welcome to the What's Best Forums and thank you for the linkservice.

Cheers,
Christoph
 

cjf

Well-Known Member
Nov 19, 2012
452
101
948
I'd not noticed this ancient thread before today. Without having ploughed through all the comments, theory and measurement graphs, etc, I'd be interested to go back to the thread title - "S&V Experiment: one 15, two 12, or four 8 inch subs" and ask simply –

If your bass (from main speakers or subs) is to be delivered by one of these driver options, which is likely to be the most satisfactory sound-wise?

My own choice is probably the 2 x 12" drivers. 15" ones tend to be rather "slow" and 8" ones are struggling to reach the lowest frequencies people think they need.

Many (probably most) "full-range" floor standers have moved from large bass drivers to multiple smaller ones over the last 2 or 3 decades, and I suspect this may be why many audiophiles are resorting to subs - a regrettable development in my view. Better to buy speakers with adequate bass up front that don't need subs. Leave subs to the AV crowd!

I've never owned subs, but my own speakers (with the exception of my ATC 50 Actives that I didn't much like) have all had twin 10" or twin 12" drivers per channel, although my very first speakers (home-built Wharfedale Airedales in the 1960s) had single 15" drivers – but these were perhaps their least good feature.

So, what do others favour - single 15", twin 12" (or maybe twin 10”), or 4 x 8"? Just your hunch, no verbose theories please! Peter
IMO/IME, larger sized Sub's don't necessarily mean they will sound "Slow". This is a myth. If they are built properly and have enough HP (..ie watts) in combination with being tuned correctly to blend in well with the Main channels then speed should not be an issue.

I currently have 1 x 18" Sub & 2 x 15" Subs. They are seamlessly blended in with my Main channels (which are known to be quite fast..Magico's) and I would say that with 90% of the music that I listen to the Subs can't be localized at any volume level. For the remaining 10% of the the music that I listen to (ie..Trance) they can be somewhat localized but only at certain Freq's for a very short period of time when playing at party levels (over 105db or so).

I believe that if someone wants to be serious about the quality of the bottom end of their music then they need Subs. There are very few one box per side Tower systems that can do the Low Freq's proper justice in any listening room larger than a shoe-box. Low Freq's need to be moved around the room with force and while you can accomplish this with a large number of small drivers I think its more efficient to just use the right tool for the job from the get go. It will be far more expensive and wasteful to try and accomplish the same task with a bunch of small displacement drivers.

I feel most of the bad myths about Subs, of any size, are the result of them not being tuned/setup correctly or that someone didn't buy enough of them to do the job properly in the size of room they are located in.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing