Audioguy HT and 2 Channel Room (Combined)

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I have made major changes since my last post.

VIDEO EQUIPMENT: Sony 600ES w/ Powered Panamorph Anamorphic Lens and sled and Sony 4K Media Player; Screen Masking System by Carada; Seymour Acoustically Transparent 2:35 120 x 51 inch screen (1.1 Gain - XD Material);

SPEAKERS: LCR: Triad Platinum LCR's; SUBS: (4) DIY Utilizing Stereo Integrity HST18's in 4cf sealed enclosure - 5db down at 5HZ; Surrounds: Tirad Silver InRoom Monitors; (4) Tannoy Di6 DC heights (Atmos/Auro)

ELECTRONICS: Marantz 7702 (with Audyssey Pro); APS 2000 Power Conditioner; Emotiva XDA-2 -- USB D to A Converter (used to send music to family room); Emotive XPA-5 driving the 4 ceiling speakers; d-sonic 7 channel amp (800 x 3 and 400 x 4)

SOURCES: Music Vault Diamond Music Server (J River and J Remote for controlling my music server); Dirac Live room correction software running on MusicVault; Oppo BD103D Bluray Player which includes DARBEE DARBLET High-Defintion Image Enhancer; DirecTV DVR; Apple TV

ROOM STUFF: Theater chairs by Berkline; Room design and all acoustic treatment by GIK

MISCELLANEOUS: BlueJeans Cables (XLR and Single Ended) and Speaker Wire

Some new photos follow (colors are not accurate):





 
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brianherlihy

New Member
Apr 21, 2010
106
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New York
Beautiful room(s) Audioguy. unfortunately i don't have the luxury to have a dedicated listening room in my loft. my wife is pretty forgiving to me treating the room, with some limits, but we still struggling finding combinations that work. i think you have done a beautiful job tying in the colors of your rooms treatments, colors, etc.
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,236
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1,725
New York City
Wow haven't seen a Room tunes rack and Bright Star base in years!

BTW, have you tried moving the VPI SDS away from the ARC phono stage. I find the SDS needs to placed as far away from other electronics as possible (and plugged into another circuit as well). Upgrading the PC too to the SDS for whatever the reason makes for a sizable improvement in the sound of the table too!
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
Wow haven't seen a Room tunes rack and Bright Star base in years!

Given that all my equipent racks sit on concrete flooring in a room separate from the speakers, vibration/resonance control concerns are (for me) WAY WAY down this list of things to worry about. I don't like the racks because (a) they are butt ugly and (b), they are a serious pain in the rear to adjust. That said, they are dead last on the liast of things to replace. Years ago, just for grins, I placed a glass of water on the top shelf of one of the racks and turned up some bass demo CD as loud as it would go (it was REALLY, REALLY, REALLY loud), no water movement looking through a powerful elctronic "magnifying glass". So for me, UGLY, but reasonably functional.


Thanks for your comments on the placement of the SDS. I will investigate some time.
 
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MikeDuke

New Member
Jul 5, 2010
37
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Eastern PA
Looks mighty impressive to me. Any updated pictures with the Cats? That is also a boat load of gear you have. You said that the equipment is in it's own room. Any problem with heat? In my small room my Bryston's can get like ovens in the summer time. Again, great system.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I'm having difficult;y getting photos to work since everything is either black or dark gray. I will have to borrow some lighting some time to take pictures. If I put the grill cloth on the Cats (see photo) you can't see anything !!



The number of components I now have is about 1/2 of what is in those photos. I have a turntable, phono stage, turntable speed control, TacT, Onkyo 885, Oppo, QSonix Music Server, amp for rear channels, two power conditioners, DAC. But even when I had all of the components (it was up to about 33 different boxes once upon a time), I have never really had a heat issue. I used to have two Bryston 4B's driving my center and rear channels and they put out some heat. Actually, the heat from the 3 Cat amps is more noticeable (but not by much) than when I had dual Bryston 7B-ST's driving my main speakers.
 

MikeDuke

New Member
Jul 5, 2010
37
3
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Eastern PA
Yep. Those Brystons can get toasty. I have a ceiling fan in my room and that helps. Plus I just got a tall standup corner fan that is really good. And now we are having an attic fan put in. Since my room is right below the attic, I am hoping that it helps some more. Great setup indeed. How big is your main viewing room?
 

terryj

New Member
Jul 4, 2010
512
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bathurst NSW
when you run the DRC, you run your vinyl thru it too?

like all things in audio there are tradeoffs, my personal opinion is if you're the figurative two steps forward with your drc, and only one step back with adc, then you're set to go.

can you comment on this aspect from your perspective?

I love to see room treatment, esp diffusion. I reckon it looks the goods (says 'here is a guy who is serious about his sound' dontcha think?) but even more than that, audiophiles who even consider the room are a vanishingly small percentage, and add to that drc, icing on the cake!
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
when you run the DRC, you run your vinyl thru it too?

like all things in audio there are trade offs, my personal opinion is if you're the figurative two steps forward with your drc, and only one step back with adc, then you're set to go.

can you comment on this aspect from your perspective?

Two comments: (And this is not to start another analog versus digital war or measurements war but rather comment on my own findings and preferences).

(1) In my previous room, where the bass had HUGE (can we say 15db) peaks, room correction was mandatory. At the time, I was using the SigTech (versus the TacT) and did run my vinyl through it. I used an external ADC converting to 20/48 (versus 24/192 of the TacT) and the conversion was transparent enough that I had no issues with it. We did some blind (not double) comparisons through headphones of the the vinyl direct and the vinyl converted and NO ONE was able to (consistently) hear any difference. But even if there were a difference, the improvement with room correction versus was well worth any tradeof. We did the same thing through the speakers and got the same results.

(2) In my new setup, the TacT is necessary to optimally integrate my subs to my mains and the TacT is far and away the best solution for that (in my opinion) particularly given the added benefit of room correction. I listened to my previous speakers (big Dunlavys) in my current room without DRC and was OK with it even though DRC made it better. Now, however, the TacT has 24/192 conversion so whatever negatives exist are more than compensated for with the total audio experience.

I'm sure there are those who might read this and think I have lost my mind (I actually have but that is another subject) for converting to digital but it works for me.

And as you so accurately noted, it's all about the room !!!!!
 

terryj

New Member
Jul 4, 2010
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bathurst NSW
Thanks AG.

Once you have heard clean accurate non boomy bass, you can never go back. So to me personally (depending on the particular room of course) it is a no brainer re the decidion to digise the analog signal or not. Not that I use analog, just applying my rule of thinmb of 'at the end of the day, is it a step forward or not?'

Ultimately that can only be determined on a case by case basis in the persons room. (rooms and speakers are all different).

The reason it is a controversial point is that is one of the many audiophile mantras that get espoused...but never tested...'keep the signal path pure'.

Yep, in some cases that may indeed be the best bet, but assuredly not in all.

I meant to ask about the skylines, they are behind the Lp yeah?, maybe ten feet? Have you been able to determine what the effects of them alone are? Or was it just part of the entire package in one go and you have not been able to tease out their contributiom.

I ask simply because I am in the middle of building a series of them, and am curious.
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
There are those who know a lot more about room acoustics than I but because this is a mixed use room (2 channel and HT), the diffusion on the back wall was part of the plan. I have had other theater incarnations in other homes and have always had some kind of diffusion on the back wall.

So, in answer to your question, I have never heard the room without it.
 

kareface

New Member
Jul 30, 2010
91
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Seattle, Wa
Audioguy, just a tip. You shouldn't keep your panels all facing the same direction. You should use the barker code to alternate them a little to prevent repetition effects. :)
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
The turntable cover and sand filled base are by Bright Star Audio. I am currently using the Catalysts for two channel and home theater. I may have an opportunity to reaquire my old Dunlavy SC VI's and if I can pull it off, I will do so and use them for 2 channel.
 
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audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
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1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
An update. My 4 racks of equipment are now down to 1.5 with a total of 9 components. Less is more!!

I have finalized the repurchase of my previous Dunlavy's. But am keeping the Catlaysts until I am convinced I made the right decision. That way I will be able to do a fairly accurate comparison.

Here is my assessment of the Dunlavys and this applies only to my specific VI's. The Dunlavy's (John and Joan) and I were friends for a while and when he built these for me, they ended up spending more than 30 hours in the anechoic chamber while he fine tuned the crossovers. I had owned a previous pair of VI's that were excellent but these were definitely better.

These specific speakers had a HUGE soundstage, razor tight center image and great soundstage depth, along with great image specificity. I can not think of any recording I ever hear where music actually ever came from the speaker. Vocals were as good as I have ever heard, maybe not as transparent as a great Maggie or other planar speaker but great in their own right. And the bass was amazing. Dual 15's in a sealed appropriately sized enclosure that easily reached into the mid-teens was as accurate as I have ever heard. Please keep in mind that some of the speakers available today that outperform this specific pair (in my mind) cost way north of $50,000 and I have no interest in spending that kind of money.

If I were to sum up what the strengths of this speaker are, it would be that this specific pair of Dunlavy VI's got all of the audiohile tricks executed to "my" perfection.

The Catalysts (in combination withe the SubMersives) do some things better than the Dunlavys. The most obvious is dynamics. They must be the fastest cone speaker I have ever heard. The midrange of the CATS may be a bit more articulate as well. And if I were only into home theater, I'm not sure I would have considered taking the Dunlavy's back. In fact, I have NEVER heard at any price point any multichannel speaker set up for movies that compared to what I currently have. The other plus for the Catalyst/SubMersive is the "fun factor" and I don't know how to define that. And while the Seaton combo does the audiophile tricks incredibly well, they, ( as I recall) are not as good as theVI's.

All of that said, I won't post the price I am paying for these VI's but this is a no brainier decision. If after I get them I decide I like the CATS better, I will see the Dunlavy's and won't loose a dime (with the possible exception of some additional medical bills acquired as a result of moving around 1100 pounds of speakers !!!!)
 
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audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I have now lived with my old Dunlavy VI's for a few months and have decided to sell them and keep the Catalysts. The VI's do some things better than the Catalysts (e.g. lower midrange which is noticeable on many vocals) and they may be a bit more refined (I'm not even sure what that means). Sound-stage width, height and depth are about a wash. Image placement within the sound-stage may be a bit better on the VI's. [the "may be" and "bit" are important to note as it is difficult to do these kinds of comparisons with a long time between the two listening sessions. And of course the VI's don't have the issue of integrating a sub since, in my room, they go down to about 10hz (gotta love room gain). Dynamics was much better with the Seatons as was midrange articulation and clarity. Also, the Seatons do MUCH better under stress (complex music) and much better when driven to LOUD volumes. I don't know if that is due to the much older technology of the old Dunlavy drivers (my guess) and/or the whole design/implementation on the Cats.

When I had the Catalysts running previously, I took EVERYONE'S recommendation and used a target curve in the TacT (and in the Integra) that had a rising response in the bass. And while I did not know that was the cause, I had never been totally happy with the Cats/SubMersive bass response (for two channel music). I told Mark Seaton it had a "thickness" to it that was fun but not accurate.

The Dunlavys are an incredibly flat speaker (both in-room and anechoically) and that is what I like and lived with for the 10+ years I had Dunlavy speakers. I am familiar with response changes at lower than reference (Fletcher-Munson) and why the rising lower bass target makes sense, but I listen fairly loud and don't really like the response curve that has the elevated bass response. So, in order to do a fair comparison of the two speakers, I created a target curve that gave a VERY similar in-room response between the VI's and the Seatons. The target curve gave a flat response (but with a slow rolloff above about 10K) when measured with an external measurement system (I am using OmniMic). Once I did that, the Cat/SubMersive combination improved significantly and not just in the bass. It became a totally different speaker. Had I heard that in the first place, I would not have taken re-possession of the VI's.

I have also purchased a new DAC (Antelope Zodiac Gold with Voltikus Power Supply) and a new music server (Diamond Music Vault from Sound Sciences).

With these last two additions, the difference between the best analog recordings (vinyl) and digital narrowed significantly in my system.

The next few changes will be in room acoustics. I have soffits around the room (stuffed with OC703) used as bass traps but the underside is dry-walled (per the stupid recommendation of Richard Rives). I will be tearing that out and covering that with acoustic panels. I will also be re-working all of my corner bass traps. And I may also make a few changes in the rear wall diffusion system.

With the exception of the occasional upper mid range glare I have been battling for 3 years, this is the best audio I have ever had in my home. I'm hoping that some of the room acoustic changes I will be implementing will finally eliminate the last residuals of this issue.

My next hardware purchase MAY be a new SSP. I'm waiting on the new Lexicon and also the final version of the AP20 with DiRAC Live.
 

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