Altair2

MylesBAstor

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I seriously doubt that a turntable, in a corner, with the back port from a 15" woofer pointing at it from just a few feet away is the lesser evil here. I suspect that long ICs, even cheap ones to eliminate the prohibitive expense, would have a lot less detrimental effect.

Tim

And maybe not. But you don't believe in cables so it's not worth arguing.
 

FrantzM

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Absolutely! We are not talking about some audiophile's living room. We are talking about a reviewer who is going to be assessing loudspeakers and may make or break some small manufacturer with his comments. What is he going to do when he reviews a turntable or phonostage?

I always recommend never to place anything between the speakers. A power amplifier that is less than a foot tall is fine, but anything taller than that degrades the soundstage and imaging. What's worse might be the fireplace in the middle. It projects what looks like 2ft into the room. There's probably a chimney in the fireplace, and unless the chimney has been acoustically treated, it will act like a Helmholtz resonator. Add two side firing 15" woofers firing into it......

Look at Jeff Fritz's room, and his construction details. Now, that's a room I won't mind sending a pair of speakers to review..... wait... I already did.

What would be interesting would be to see the pictures of the rooms of ALL the reviewers on the website. Now, that would lend no end of credibility to the review. Then, it would be easy to take the review in the context of the room/equipment that the review was done in.

I had not read your post about the turntable position when I posted my similar but less precise observation. Extremely valid points you make.
Regarding the paragraph I underlined ..It is something many of us would like to see too. We could be in for some surprises .. many of the top reviewers rooms are, to say the least, lightly treated if at all. One has to wonder how these reviewers seem not to be hear through 15 dB peaks and valleys ...

This detracts however form the excellence of the Rockport line of speakers ... They are the real deal.
 

MylesBAstor

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Hi

We are piling on RH room... Well ... He's a reviewer and as such should have a room worthy of his status ... I also don't think IC prices would be much of a problem for RH

Price out a 15-20 meter pair of Transparent Opus MM2 ICs :) Unless Robert's book of course it selling very well....
 

MylesBAstor

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I had not read your post about the turntable position when I posted my similar but less precise observation. Extremely valid points you make.
Regarding the paragraph I underlined ..It is something many of us would like to see too. We could be in for some surprises .. many of the top reviewers rooms are, to say the least, lightly treated if at all. One has to wonder how these reviewers seem not to be hear through 15 dB peaks and valleys ...

This detracts however form the excellence of the Rockport line of speakers ... They are the real deal.


And I remember having a conversation with Art Noxon years ago about how rooms that shouldn't work do :)
 

FrantzM

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Price out a 15-20 meter pair of Transparent Opus MM2 ICs :) Unless Robert's book of course it selling very well....

So it's best to have the cavity resonance perturbs the TT? I dare ask what's worse, using other cables... those which in a knowledge removed test would likely be indistinguishable from the Opus Mighty Majestic? I don't know the particulars of the room but the corner with a low frequency port firing into the TT is not the best place... I don't know the logistical problems room but since the person is a professional audio reviewer, the Editor in Chief of one of the most prestigious Audio Magazine out there whose opinion (his reviews) hold a lot of sway in the Industry, One wonders ... This room, in all probability, doesn't work as well as that of OB here... Art could be the first to know
There are however exceptions.. Jeff Fritz room comes to mind
 

DaveyF

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Myles, given the seemingly difficult limitations that Mr.Harley has to overcome in his room, it would seem to me that a far better place for his TT would be as I had suggested. Your point about it not being ideal is well taken, however given his current set-up, it would seem far more ideal than his current set-up or the other possible solutions available to him.
In a room that is not specifically designed for audio, most every set-up will involve some kind of compromise, the key, IMHO, is to minimize the compromise:D
 

MylesBAstor

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So it's best to have the cavity resonance perturbs the TT? I dare ask what's worse, using other cables... those which in a knowledge removed test would likely be indistinguishable from the Opus Mighty Majestic? I don't know the particulars of the room but the corner with a low frequency port firing into the TT is not the best place... I don't know the logistical problems room but since the person is a professional audio reviewer, the Editor in Chief of one of the most prestigious Audio Magazine out there whose opinion (his reviews) hold a lot of sway in the Industry, One wonders ... This room, in all probability, doesn't work as well as that of OB here... Art could be the first to know
There are however exceptions.. Jeff Fritz room comes to mind

Frantz, One can speculate all they want, but one had better listen first. I've seen all types of criticisms, unjustified in some cases, about people's rooms and to their credit, prove that one can situate gear to produce a very fine sound. Sure it would be nice to have a room likes Jeff's or Mike's but many of us don't have the room or money. So we do what we can and get good sound in spite of.
 

MylesBAstor

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Myles, given the seemingly difficult limitations that Mr.Harley has to overcome in his room, it would seem to me that a far better place for his TT would be as I had suggested. Your point about it not being ideal is well taken, however given his current set-up, it would seem far more ideal than his current set-up or the other possible solutions available to him.
In a room that is not specifically designed for audio, most every set-up will involve some kind of compromise, the key, IMHO, is to minimize the compromise:D

Perhaps Bob tried situating the table in both places and found the corner preferable? :) And otoh, the AJ Conti table is designed as well as they come and perhaps it can deal with more than one gives a table credit for. If you looked where HP had his Goldmund Reference in relationship to his IRS Vs, I'm sure most would conclude it shouldn't work. But it did.
 

Bruce B

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I've commented many times on this and JV's room. Mikey's room is a "little" better, though he at least sits in the near field.
 

MylesBAstor

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I've commented many times on this and JV's room. Mikey's room is a "little" better, though he at least sits in the near field.

Thing is, how did HP get the beeeggggg...IRS V to sing in his smallish room 2? And sing they did at their best! Some of it was possibly the near field listening position and perhaps some was as HP has postulated due to the very thick walls in his house.
 

jadis

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Thing is, how did HP get the beeeggggg...IRS V to sing in his smallish room 2?

In those days, I was wondering about that myself. And even more amazing to me is Lewis Lipnick's even smaller room (at least to me) housing the huge B&W 800 loudspeakers which were taller than him, and about 2" short of his room's ceiling. If he stood in the middle of the 2 speakers, with his wingspan stretched out, he could touch both speakers. The speakers were oh so close to his side walls. And I remember he called those speakers 'perfect' and 'without any flaws'.
 

wizard

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Altair 2
 

LL21

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So I finally finally heard these. I also had the even greater pleasure to meet Madfloyd who kindly joined for the audition. I am reserving this slot since I want to think carefully about such an august speaker.

Many thanks for Goodwins for their time...I have known Paul since 1993...and trust him and his hear. They are first class and have always looked after me. Just scheduling this took 3 tries because of our travel schedule.

System
DCS Vivaldi
Constellation Virgo and Centaur
MIT ref cables

Music
Eric Clapton Unplugged
fabric 15 deep house
Sherlock Holmes Hans Zimmerman
Rodriguo and Gabriela live in Japan
Rachel podger channel classics Vivaldi extravaganza
Snoop dog blue carpet
Amos tobin deep electronic house beats
Vivaldi prof Johnson reference recordings

Initial impressions

As MadFoyd can confirm, when we first sat down I thought impressive, soundstage not much diff than what I imagine my X1s might have done in the room. Detail 10-15% better. Eric Clapton track 1 guitar...my first question to Madfloyd who plays guitar was...is that really the full weight ofa guitar? Really? Mid strings feel lite...missing the impact of the resonance of the guitar body.

Bass slam on electronica was lite but I am so used to X1s and bigvelodyne I did not think much of it's liteness...maybe I am spoiled. I did not critique but was not impressed relative to Merck sheritan IIs I heard long ago which for the money were amazing.

Classical was beautifully articulated and spacious...i played this after clapton and rodriguo...and the classical also had slightly less bass impact heavy transients...But I still did mention to Madfloyd about preferring deeper bass because it helps with spacial cues and sense of aura around orchestral...oh well, so far impressive but no way I walk away and think dramatic improvement over my 20 yr old speakers. I preferred xlfs for sure but recognized set up was all new.

Then...about 1 hour in or so...Sherlock Holmes Hans Zimmerman was so much better...I was stunned. I was so stunned at the uplift from what I normally hear...I was sure something had changed and went back to Eric Clapton. Blam! String mids beautiful, full...bass weight much better slam...and soundstage much much deeper more deliberate. By this time we had also moved the couch back 3 feet because someone had left it too far forward and there was no soundstage.

I went outof the room to ask Paul about this...no way that's normal. How long was system on beforehand? It felt like something had warmed up. Turns out someone accidentally kicked the power cord of the pre and Paul plugged it in before we came in so not as much warm up. Big difference...huge actually.

nOW you're talking. And the warm up and deep puirty of tonality continued to improve for the 30 min I stayed after Madfloyd had to leave.
This s one seriously good speaker.

- transparency. Well based on the above, the transparency is exceptional...you really hear far, far into the playback chain. If someone whose never been in the room or heard the exact system can hear the warm up of the preamp so distinctly, that is a very transparent speaker. I feel confident I would not be able to do that with SF strads for example..much as I loved mine when I had them. It just changed completely.

- soundstage. For those love this stuff...I appreciate it but don't pine away for it. The room was maybe 30-35 by 20 by 10-11 high ( feet). Speakers at 16 feet apart and 10 feet into room...so quite far apart and close to the 20 foot width.

Eric cLapton unplugged. Eric Clapton was 12-15 back from front facade of the speakers.
Rodriguez and Gabriela - 5-7 feet back and 10-12 feet apart...they did move a bit
Sherlock Holmes...that kettle drum is 30 feet back...that was very very cool.

- bass wallop
Very extended and more detailed than what I heard from XLF but that's not saying one is better given room and set up. Just what I heard,
What I liked most is its organic detailed propulsive and very very balanced...people who enjoy will feel a very satisfactory bass power and balance. Bass freaks will still want more...but hey, we're bass freaks!

- ease and dynamics
My favorite part of these speakers presentation...how easy it makes it all seem. Nothing thrown at you, not deep sound staging nor pure tonal beauty, nor the ability to play multiple complex lines and keep it all intact, nor balanced coherent broad sound range.

It is fast but does not appear fast. The only way I can tell its fast is the level of complex detail it handles where each musical instrument maintains its own musical line perfectly and easily listened to on its own, despite the complex orchestral...plus the stable imaging of a delicate flute in the back or a harpsichord...while bass is plowing off to one side and strings in the middle...all distinguishable and tonally pure...without any image waver whatsoever...means it is delivering each instruments exact information without letting that instrument bleed into the presentation NFC another instrument.

- voice/mids
Think rockport solidity with delicacy and nuance. For someone who likes electrostatics, wants to hear full decay which I am convinced is part of a natural feel to music reproduction and fullness to their images and instruments...I think Altair is one of the finest examples I have heard. The fact that it weighs 515 lbs and delivers the solidity you would hope to get from such an inert heavy speakers is the icing on the cake which makes this kind of purchase really, really, really satisfying.

Prelim Conclusions

I can see why some have advised me they put the Altair against the X2...and the XLF has more scale but not necessarily more coherence, tonal purity or deep articulate sound tagging. I think for the footprint, the XLF cleverly gives a taller speaker that MIGHT just edge out in dynamic range...sense of space. But the Altairs do deliver a deeper soundstage than I have ever heard with the big Wilson's (and I have lost count as to how many times I have heard and auditioned big Wilsons in various locations incl my home). So you might not lose anything with Altair on that score.

Given the price differential, I think once again consistent with my thoughts on meta sheritan ii of old...rockport is sensational value and true sota. I would love to hear the Arrakis which is priced much closer to XLF and in fact given the value for money of the Altair intrigues me as t how it compares with the mighty Genesis 1.2 more than XLF.
 
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jfrech

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:) :) I am so glad you finally got to hear the Rockports !
 

LL21

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:) :) I am so glad you finally got to hear the Rockports !

Still editing my post below...will be finished when I have filled in Prelim Conclusions.
 

Jazzhead

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Informative writeup Lloyd , thanks . If it gets near or surpasses the XLF at 1/2 the retail then sure is special . Cheers !
 

LL21

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Informative writeup Lloyd , thanks . If it gets near or surpasses the XLF at 1/2 the retail then sure is special . Cheers !

Just finished editing my little review/Impressions. I actually feel like given the extreme value for money I would love to know how Arrakis stacks up relative to Genesis 1.2/Dragons. The Altairs were that good (to my ears).
 

Jazzhead

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I can see why some have advised me they put the Altair against the X2...and the XLF has more scale but not necessarily more coherence, tonal purity or deep articulate sound tagging. I think for the footprint, the XLF cleverly gives a taller speaker that MIT just edge out in dynamic range...sense of space. But the Altairs do deliver a deeper soundstage than I have ever heard with the big Wilson's and I have lost count as to how many times I have heard and auditioned them in various locations. So you might not lose anything with Altair on that score.

This bit seems to me rather like, ginger-footing a minefield so as not to upset an apple cart ... rather delicately put I would say ;) .
 

LL21

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This bit seems to me rather like, ginger-footing a minefield so as not to upset an apple cart ... rather delicately put I would say ;) .

;). In truth I like both...I could not say without shootout anything more definitive. But once we add dollars into the mix, I can say rockport is extraordinary for the money...and Arrakis for the money must be something otherworldly.
 

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