Best Portable Music Player

Ron Party · Jun 7, 2011

I have an iPod which I use with my Westone buds when working out at the gym. Like Amir I do not like being locked into Apple's world, i.e., I do not care for iTunes.

What is the best portable music player that does not begin with an "i"?

Steve Williams · Jun 7, 2011

What is the best portable music player that does not begin with an "i"

"i"don't know

RUR · Jun 7, 2011

Steve Williams said:
"i"don't know

Your Benz, of course.

Johnny Vinyl · Jun 7, 2011

The Sandisc SANSA is a nice little player.

amirm · Jun 7, 2011

Microsoft Zune HD is a wonderful player and the best outside of Apple's world. It is thin and elegant. Battery life is also excellent as is sound quality. Microsoft has announced that it won't be building new models but what is there is still available for purchase. Here is a sample unit from Amazon: http://www.amazon.com/Zune-Video-MP...=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1307491018&sr=1-1-catcorr

Ron Party · Jun 7, 2011

Very interesting, Amir. Have you heard anything about a Zune HD2?

amirm · Jun 7, 2011

I don't think there will be a Zune HD2. The whole effort of building dedicated music players has stopped and they are focused on providing the same experience on Windows Phone. Sadly, I can't recommend that platform relative to its core offering (phone).

Ron Party · Jun 7, 2011

Thanks, Amir. The Zune HD sure looks like a great player. Do you happen to know if it will play flac files?

amirm · Jun 7, 2011

It will not. FLAC support is problematic for most companies because the IP (patent) situation is very unclear.

caesar · Jun 7, 2011

Ron Party said:
... I do not like being locked into Apple's world, i.e., I do not care for iTunes.

What is the best portable music player that does not begin with an "i"?

So I guess you weren't taken by Steve Jobs' "cloud" spiel the other day?

Ron Party · Jun 7, 2011

Caesar, you got that right.

Jay_S · Jun 7, 2011

What is the issue regarding usage of FLAC? FLAC is considered to be free for both commercial and non-commercial use, and there are no licensing fees or royalties. See http://flac.sourceforge.net/license.html

amirm · Jun 8, 2011

Jay_S said:
What is the issue regarding usage of FLAC? FLAC is considered to be free for both commercial and non-commercial use, and there are no licensing fees or royalties. See http://flac.sourceforge.net/license.html

An executive once told me, "the most expensive thing is what is given to you for free!"

What is free with Flac is the specification and code. Unfortunately there is a thing call patents. You can't wake up and write new code and give it away that does one-click purchasing and not have Amazon knock on your door saying you violated their patent. The law says it doesn't matter that you thought of it on your own. If it steps on a previous patent -- whether you know about it or not -- you still have to pay up. And if you are a company the size of Microsoft, the pay off is usually in large millions of dollars.

Signal processing/compression is an incredibly challenging area when it comes to patents. People come out of woodwork left and right making claims. Before I left Microsoft, I had the displeasure of being involved in an MP3 lawsuit form Lucent that led to a $1.5 Billion dollar settlement! That was reversed later and one patent ruled invalid but just shows you how much liability there is, even though we had fully licensed MP3 from its agent (Thomson). For something like MP3 and MPEG-2, folks take their chances but for a hobbyist format like FLAC? No way....

bikemig · Jun 8, 2011

What about one of the HiFiMan portable players? http://www.amazon.com/HiFiMAN-HiFiMan-HM-601-Portable-Player/dp/B004DHOHYQ

FrantzM · Jun 8, 2011

AMir

I know nothing about laws and even less

about Patent Laws .. Still reading what FLAC is I don't seem to see the problem with its commercial use.. Some more knowledgeable should try to explain but I lean toward a more plebeian explanation: A refusal to give more wind to the free software movement...

Ron Party · Jun 8, 2011

bikemig said:
What about one of the HiFiMan portable players? http://www.amazon.com/HiFiMAN-HiFiMan-HM-601-Portable-Player/dp/B004DHOHYQ

Very interesting product. Supports 24bit/96kHz FLAC. Downside is that it appears bulky.

amirm · Jun 8, 2011

FrantzM said:
AMir

I know nothing about laws and even less about Patent Laws .. Still reading what FLAC is I don't seem to see the problem with its commercial use.. Some more knowledgeable should try to explain but I lean toward a more plebeian explanation: A refusal to give more wind to the free software movement...

Let me give you an example. We designed VC-1 as a next generation video compression format. Like FLAC, we wrote the specification, implemented it in code and license it to others. As a requirement for submission and eventual mandatory status in Blu-ray, we were asked to provide the specifications to a standards org which we did (SMPTE). That led then to a third-party licensing company who did a call for anyone who may have patents which read on it. A dozen companies showed up and after their patents evaluated, they were all deemed essential and become part of the licensing group. Their claim was that they had basic patents that read on any implementation of a transform based compression engine. Indeed, the same patents are part of the pool for MPEG-2, MPEG-4 and VC-1.

Same is potentially true of FLAC. It uses linear prediction to compression data. Such a technique has been used by compression engines before it. I can't tell you if some has or has not patented them. But if I were a betting man, I would say more than one person or company would lay claims against it as soon as a major company with deep pockets implement it.

Open source in general has less of this risk in that if I just write some software it is much less likely that someone has a patent on it. That said, there could be claims there just the same as we have seen from lawsuits from Microsoft and others against open source operating systems.

Jay_S · Jun 8, 2011

amirm said:
Same is potentially true of FLAC. It uses linear prediction to compression data. Such a technique has been used by compression engines before it. I can't tell you if some has or has not patented them. But if I were a betting man, I would say more than one person or company would lay claims against it as soon as a major company with deep pockets implement it.

Open source in general has less of this risk in that if I just write some software it is much less likely that someone has a patent on it. That said, there is a could there just the same as we have seen from lawsuits from Microsoft and others against open source operating systems.

Thanks. This is a very clear explanation that unfortunately seems plausible.

Jay_S · Jun 8, 2011

Not too many companies are making these things anymore. Another line to look at is Cowon.

arnyk · Jun 13, 2011

amirm said:
It will not. FLAC support is problematic for most companies because the IP (patent) situation is very unclear.

The Sansa Clip and Fuze support FLAC.

The worst thing about them is that they play about 0.5% fast unless you load the third party firmware for them - Rockbox.

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