Hifinews review D'Agostino Momentum amp

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Just received this months Hifinews and they have a review of Dan Agostino's latest creation.
Overall very positive but the early sample on measurements suffers a little from hum and noise - I hope this gets resolved.

Well the UK distributor has the review on their site as well, which they do for most of the products they shift (great distribution company).
So for your reading pleasure:
Review in PDF
http://absolutesounds.com/index.php?page=press_view&article_id=437

Cheers
Orb
 

Kippyy

Well-Known Member
Feb 20, 2011
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San Ramon, CA
I've had my eye on this for a few months. Don't know that I would ever plop down 45K for an amplifier,but anyway..thanks for posting this!
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Have they ever published negative reviews? Not since Crabbe passed the helm.That's ok - at this price point, early customers are routinely offered a hum-and-noise discount.

Heck yeah of course they do.
Like JA if the measurements do not match up it is explained, and like Stereophile and otherswhy bother spending time reviewing crap performing products?
I doutbt even Jeff Fritz wants to spend time with a poor product for lengthy review process (different to commenting on products at shows).
A reviewer has to spend much time with a product, so it is more constructive to try and filter these products away from being reviewed, that said on average once a month they will review and comment on a poor product, which they agreed to reviewed without hearing it before when say at a show.

Anyway only a rare few products get above 88% in Hifinews, only 2 I think have ever had 90%, while many do hit between 70 to 80%, with a flawed-product issue usually around 60 to 68%.
If you want reviews of poor products, ask the editors to do them :)

That said my reservation is that KK does seem overly enthusiastic, but then IF a product is really that good how difficult is it not to be enthusiastic, and who wants to read a very passive article-review when a paying subscriber.
And I agree the hum and noise would be an issue, but for others it is not; different tolerance-thresholds between listeners and I have seen in the past KK is not overly worried by noise, anyway it was mentioned by Paul Miller so that helps.
Cheers
Orb
 

fishnchips

Banned
May 8, 2011
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It is impossible for me to respond to your post, one of the reasons being that my opinion of "KK" as a reviewer is unmentionable in civilized company. Therefore you will excuse my silence.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Curiously we have one more amplifier with a great review, but having higher than usual THD - see that distortion at 4 ohms is always around .08% raising over .1% over 200W. The general trend seems towards uniformity of THD versus power and frequency, slowly increasing at the right extreme of the scale.

Are they miming tube amplifiers? :eek:
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Curiously we have one more amplifier with a great review, but having higher than usual THD - see that distortion at 4 ohms is always around .08% raising over .1% over 200W. The general trend seems towards uniformity of THD versus power and frequency, slowly increasing at the right extreme of the scale.

Are they miming tube amplifiers? :eek:

Fishnchips, no problem and I can understand how some feel to certain reviewers, for you then its more about Paul Miller's measurements and comments for this product, still like you I would prefer to see such an amp being much cheaper.


Heya microstrip,
it seems to me there is definitely some kind of engineering going on as you say, btw Paul Miller has noted such engineering with Pass Labs where he feels the way the performance measurement behaves shows incredible engineering knowledge (again their distortion is very different behaviour to normal) and experience.
But yeah it is higher than normal for SS; maybe something to do with implementation of feedback or possibly the type of output transistors, or even going DC-coupled which I have seen has slightly worse noise-hum in those amps.

Also of interest and this is very different is the output impedance that is high enough (0.15 to -0.17ohm) to usually cause FR fluctuations when considering speaker load, however with Dan's new amp the output impedance does not have any affect at all as Paul Miller checked it against loading of 100ohm to 1ohm.
Very interesting from input to output stage.
Cheers
Orb
 

fishnchips

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May 8, 2011
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Fishnchips, no problem and I can understand how some feel to certain reviewers, for you then its more about Paul Miller's measurements and comments for this product, still like you I would prefer to see such an amp being much cheaper
It is not a matter of feelings, rather an assessment of competence. As for cheap or expensive amplifiers, it is immaterial to me as I'm not interested in passive speakers, and, by extension, in the devices needed to drive them.
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Ah but its an assessment of his competence by yourself, hence it is your feelings-perspective-view.
I doubt everyone feels the same way as you do, especially the support he gets from the Off the Leash page he does in the magazine, and for some of his reviews.
As you are not interested in this setup and then all those who do cover this type, maybe you should let this go then or start a new thread about reviewers and their scopes-competence (however if doing a search you will find older posts already on that subject but you may want to update them).
This is not the one to do it thanks as it is about one specific product review and its measurements, which as you say is outside of your interest due to working with passive speakers.

Cheers
Orb
 

fishnchips

Banned
May 8, 2011
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Ah but its an assessment of his competence by yourself, hence it is your feelings-perspective-view.
I doubt everyone feels the same way as you do
Truth content does not depend on popularity, therefore I do not intend to promote my view.
 

caesar

Well-Known Member
May 30, 2010
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Thanks for link, Orb. I like Kessler's writing style. I also trust his initial gut reaction that this is a good amplifier, with him being in hobby for many, many years.

Now for the folks for whom the amp is fantasy, anything he writes will do. And this is the majority of his readers. It's kind of like picking up the Sports Illustrated Bikini edition or going to an auto show. But for the folks who are serious, this is complete rubbish because he didn't compare it to another amp at that price point. Right now the argument says trust me and trust Dan the Krell man. If he compared to a similarly priced Krell, Baloboo, Levinson, Technical Brain, Soulution, or whatever else is there at that price point, the review would be a lot more meaning (and be an even juicier fantasy) for his readers.
 

microstrip

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May 30, 2010
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Reading a single isolated review from KK can be a punishment for some one expecting a classic review. But for someone who has followed his opinions for about 20 years, since he started his column Classical Glass in Hifi News and Record Review, it is really enjoyable.

Surely his appreciations are subjective and highly biased, but unless you are expecting direct buying advice, his style and hifi taste can make a review a pleasure to read.

I end quoting the final lines of his HNRR review of the Counterpoint SA7 in 1984:

" It is no (ARC) SP-8, but its presence in your system will make the absence of that august unit seem less of a misfortune".

Unmistakable!
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Yeah agree with you both, I have a respect for his style and his analysis can be pretty spot on such as his Off the Leash page.
His only weakness IMO is that hum/noise does not bother him and I feel sometimes he misses these factors in a review, but then as I mentioned it is subjective and not everyone has the same tolerance/threshold so having just PM mention it is probably enough.
It would be a poorer magazine to read without KK and his input, thats for sure.
Glad the link was of interest to you guys.

Cheers
Orb
 

mep

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Apr 20, 2010
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Hum and buzz have no place in a $400 amp let alone a $40K amp. Something is wrong.
 

naturephoto1

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May 24, 2010
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Hum and buzz have no place in a $400 amp let alone a $40K amp. Something is wrong.

Mark,

I do not want to argue with you about hum, but I have transformer hum in all 3 of my Aragon Palladium 1K monoblock amps and also my Krell KAV-250a/3 power amps. However, they are all stacked in one rack rather near the wall and I do get a bit of hum from the Isolation Transformers that the Exact Power EP15A Power units plug into; the Power amps plug into the 2 EP15A units.

Rich
 

Orb

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Sep 8, 2010
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Hum and buzz have no place in a $400 amp let alone a $40K amp. Something is wrong.

As I mentioned Mark,
from what I understand and seen with DC-coupled power amps it is much more noticable with that design (never seen one that is superb but they may exist), to a lesser extent is possibly some of the other engineering factors I mentioned - and as said by Richard it could be susceptible to mains and other sources, still it would be too much for me to consider but as I mentioned this does not bother others especially if it does sound stunning, which I appreciate will be debatable for some.
But yeah it would keep me away no matter the price, and especially when talking big bucks.

Thanks
Orb
 
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Peter Breuninger

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Jul 20, 2010
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Ken wrote a great review both in prose and in enthusiasm. I don't trust my gut as much as he does on early listening sessions but for an amplifier I'll give him a pass since the rest of the system should indeed be tuned in. I heard the amplifier at HiFi House last month (with various Wilsons) and the sound was detailed and lifelike. I'll have a pair in for comment soon enough. Pictures don't it justice, you simply have to see the way light reflects off this beauty in the flesh to "get" the visual Kaboom. I'm going to mate it with the big YGs (cat out of bag).
 

mauidan

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Aug 2, 2010
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According to Debbie Wilson's post on another forum, you can check out the Momentum Monoblocks here:

2011 Capital Audiofest July 8th - 10th:

Wilson Audio will be partnering up with one of Wilson's dealers, JS Audio, to show at this year's 2nd Annual Capital Audiofest!

Equipment shown by JS Audio:

Wilson Audio Sasha's
Momentum Monoblocks
Meridian Sooloos and 808.3
Nordost Odin cables
MXR Audio Stands

Attending:

JS Audio - Dave Kennedy. Steven Kennedy, and N'Kai Walton
Wilson Audio - Peter McGrath
HRS - Michael Latvis,
Nordost - Michael Taylor
D'Agostino - Dan and Petra D'Agostino
Meridian - Ken Forsythe
 

Orb

New Member
Sep 8, 2010
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Ken wrote a great review both in prose and in enthusiasm. I don't trust my gut as much as he does on early listening sessions but for an amplifier I'll give him a pass since the rest of the system should indeed be tuned in. I heard the amplifier at HiFi House last month (with various Wilsons) and the sound was detailed and lifelike. I'll have a pair in for comment soon enough. Pictures don't it justice, you simply have to see the way light reflects off this beauty in the flesh to "get" the visual Kaboom. I'm going to mate it with the big YGs (cat out of bag).

Thanks for the headsup Peter,
btw was the hum-noise of notice to you?
Appreciate it may not be a concern as listeners have different tolerances and thresholds, and for some these will not be a problem and for others may be an absolute nightmare.
Thanks
Orb
 

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