Ripping SACDs the right way

Kal Rubinson

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Kal, ripping to ISO *is* simple, and extracting the DSD files is also simple. If you have a high-end DAC, then you are done at that point. Someone like me wanting to use a networked media player needs to do further conversion, though there is a 3rd party app for Popcorn Hour just around the corner that will read the DSD files and integrate the playing of SACD into the user interface.
Jeff
I have read the docs and guidance and it does not lead me to expect speed.
First, I have to find a PS3. I have never used one.
Then, I have to load the programs.
Then, assuming all is working, I put in an SACD and rip the files.
Finally, I need to transfer the files, in a proper way, to the HD from where they will be accessed.
So, how long does each disc take?
 

Kal Rubinson

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About 15-20 minutes for the rip. Then depending on what you want to do with it... ?? If you just want a stereo DSD file, that's all you need to do.
That's exactly what I figured. At 15mins per disc, that's 600hours with a hand's on effort. I am considering an auto-ripper for my CDs and they take under 10mins to rip but the auto-ripper lets me stack 100 discs and come back when the job is done. If there was an autoripper PS3, I would not care as much about the time each disc required.
 

billh

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The SACD rip to ISO part takes about 15-20 minutes per disc which is done on the PS3 and saved to a thumbdrive. You then have to do the DSD extract step from the ISO file which you do from your desktop or laptop that gives you the individual DSD files and this takes another 20 minutes or so (longer for multichannel) including the time it takes to copy the large ISO file to your PC. You can create the DSD files from the PS3 eliminating the ISO step but from what I have read, this is not recommended due to the fragility of the PS3 and the longer time it takes on the PS3 compared to PC.

There is a new Daemon available that allows you to network your PC to the PS3 and eliminate some of the file transfer routine. I didn't use it as I had a hard time getting my PS3 and PC to talk.
 

pepar

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No doubt, Kal, it would be a chore to rip all those SACD, but it's not really "hands on" in that you don't need to monitor the entire process. If you attach a large USB storage device, you can load an SACD, select the rip mode, hit the start button and do something else for 20 mins. When you come back, you eject, reload and repeat.
 

Kal Rubinson

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No doubt, Kal, it would be a chore to rip all those SACD, but it's not really "hands on" in that you don't need to monitor the entire process. If you attach a large USB storage device, you can load an SACD, select the rip mode, hit the start button and do something else for 20 mins. When you come back, you eject, reload and repeat.
and repeat and repeat..... Nope.
 

billh

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That, sir, is of great interest to me as you are the only one I know of who has done the conversions with all the different apps!

Jeff

Well, my listening tests are proving to be very interesting. To my ears, on my equipment, I can definitely tell the difference between the shiny disc DSD and the LPCM. I haven't quite been able to put my finger on the specifics but the shiny disc does sound better. It isn't a dramatic difference nor is there any glaring problem: It just sounds better. On the stereo discs, it sounds like the imaging is better, more focused with the shiny discs. On the multichannel, just not as listenable.

Not a complete waste of time for me since the main purpose was to stream the music throughout my house so the differences are not going to be as noticeable outside my main listening room. However, if I am going to be sitting down with a glass (or two) of a nice red wine to travel to audio-bliss land, I will choose the shiny disc.

This is my entirely subjective opinion based on my ears, my room and my equipment. Mileage may differ. I am playing the shiny disc via a Denon 5910CI universal player and a Denon AVP-A1HDCI pre/pro and using the Denon Link (not hdmi or toslink) feeding a DSD stream to the pre/pro for decoding. The amps are Parasound solid state high current and Infinity Prelude MTS speakers. The Streaming of LPCM is done on an Oppo BDP-93 using a WDLive NAS hard drive and Twonky. Other than one stream being DSD and the other being LPCM, the settings on the pre/pro for Audyseey and so forth are identical.

I have read and heard that some people swear that DSD sounds better- I may be finding out if I am one of those people now or if my conversion process broke down at some point.
 

pepar

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This has been my fear, that I would expend a lot of energy only to find out that hi-res FLAC files are audibly inferior to the "shiny disc" or the DSD files. Detail, transparency and dynamics are usually the areas where I find SACD/DVD-A to be far better than CDs. I have discovered that while my Oppo does not play FLAC, my Onk 5508 will. So my own listening comparison is back on my agenda.

Bill, did you compare FLACs generated with the different apps available? If so, what are your findings? With the cost of a high end mch DAC, that solution doesn't seem to be in my future. The music player daemon being developed for the Popcorn Hour appliances (that will read DSDIFF files from networked storage) sounds promising, but it too converts to PCM ... on the fly, so no longer would I need to fuss with Audiogate, Audio Format Converter, Saracon, et all. Gosh I need to get my butt in gear and do some comparisons ...

I just might find that handling the physical media is preferable to the convenience of a networked media server.

Jeff
 

billh

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^^^

I'm am not so sure where the breakdown occurred in the process. I am pretty sure it is not with the FLAC format itself as I have ripped all of my DVD-A's and can tell no difference between the shiny disc DVD-A and the resultant FLAC file streamed from my Oppo BDP-93.

I suspect what i am hearing is the difference between DSD and LPCM or some breakdown in the DSD to PCM conversion as this is where the meat and potatoes of the bit rate and sampling changes are made. Perhaps the AL-GORE-Rhythms don't quite make for a perfect copy.

I used Audiogate for the 2 channel and Pyramix for the multichannel and used 24 bits/176.4 rate for all. I did have to use Saracon for a few files and set it at 24 bits/88.2. For Audiogate, I used the soft filter and the Korg Aqua dithering. In Pyramix, I didn't use any filter or dithering.

EDIT: Knowing what I know now and what I will use these converted files for, I will probably try 24 bits and 44.1 rate for my next conversions............I think the bits may be more important than the rate anyway and the resulting file sizes will be much smaller and take less time to get done.

We can hope that Oppo or some other company comes out with a way to stream the extracted native DSD files.
 

billh

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And I have another birthday in 2 weeks.

Me too - Maybe we can swap stories about growing up with b'days so close to Christmas and all the strange comments we get from people when our birthdays are read from our driver's licenses. ;)

I also share close b'days with my bro-in-law and his daughter (my niece) - go figure.
 

pepar

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I suspect what i am hearing is the difference between DSD and LPCM or some breakdown in the DSD to PCM conversion as this is where the meat and potatoes of the bit rate and sampling changes are made.
I think that would be it. The subtleties that make one recorded version of a song more transparent and detailed than another are not making the conversion intact.

Jeff
 

billh

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I think that would be it. The subtleties that make one recorded version of a song more transparent and detailed than another are not making the conversion intact.

Jeff

I'd be interested to what your opinion (and others') is of the ones you have converted - once you get to that point. You might just try one or two discs to begin with. My comparison was done with both a stereo and MCH disc from Bob Dylan, a Pink Floyd MCH and a couple of Chesky Audiophile discs.

Also, I have read that some (maybe quite a few) SACD discs were converted to DSD from PCM which makes an interesting issue since we consumers have no idea of the source material of these discs (analog, PCM, etc..). So..........Is it live or is it Memorex? Is it analog to DSD or is it PCM to DSD?
 

Bruce B

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Also, I have read that some (maybe quite a few) SACD discs were converted to DSD from PCM which makes an interesting issue since we consumers have no idea of the source material of these discs (analog, PCM, etc..). So..........Is it live or is it Memorex? Is it analog to DSD or is it PCM to DSD?

Yes, "quite a few" is an understatement! The ones we have been testing would say upwards of 60%!
 

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