Ripping SACDs the right way

Bruce B

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Then you mentioned loading all six channels resulting in six (mono?) files. And I asked if a MCH files could be made from that.
Or at least I think that's what we were saying. :)
Jeff

Yes, you get 6 mono files. If you want to make a single MCH file, you first have to determine what format you want... ITU/FILM/DTS or??
I leave them in mono so I can place them where I want in the workstation. You can do this with Audacity as well if you are playing from there.

Like I said, DiscWelder places the 6 mono files into AC3 format.
 

pepar

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OK, EUREKA! RTFM, I did ... while only multiple mono files can be loaded for batch processing in what they term a "conversion document" ... multiple instances of the CONVERSION DOCUMENT itself can be opened allowing for .. ta-DA! .. multiple mch DIFF files to be loaded. One per track was the first thing that came to mind, but I should try to load it up with multiple albums' worth of tracks.

 

pepar

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Audiogate is 2-ch. This is Philips. The sticking point before was that we thought it was one file at a time with it, but it can be set up to convert multiple mch tracks. It is soo fast that it took almost as much time to set up the album as it did to convert.

I just completed converting the AIFF's from Philips to FLAC's with foobar2000. So, SACD-Ripper=ISO ... sacd-extract=DSDFF ...Philips=AIFF ... foobar2000=FLAC. Tomorrow I'll burn a disc and see what it sounds like.

Jeff
 

pepar

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No listening comparisons yet - of FLACs to original media ... or of the FLACs comparing the two different workflows, but here is what I found for time, files sizes and CPU usage. (Intel Core i7-920, 12GB DDR3-1600, Windows 7 64-bit)


4.87GB ISO - 13 TRACKS - ALBUM RUNTIME 52:14

SACD-Extract (ISO to DFF) - 10:25
RESULTING DFF FILES - 6.60GB

Philips Audio Format Converter (DFF to AIF)
SETUP 13 TRACKS - 8:00
CONVERT TRACKS - 9:00
CPU USAGE - ALL FOUR CORES USED - 40%-60% DURING PROCESSING ONLY
AND BURSTS 75%-95% DURING READ/WRITE, LOAD RELATIVELY BALANCED
RESULTING AIF FILES - 9.90GB

foobar2000 (AIF to FLAC)
SETUP - NEGLIGIBLE
CONVERT - 8:20
CPU USAGE - ALL FOUR CORES USED - 1%-30%, NO BURSTS W/CONSTANT READ/WRITE, LOAD RANDOMLY UNBALANCED
RESULTING FLAC FILES - 7.19GB

-----------------------
Saracon (DFF to FLAC)
SETUP - 2:00
CONVERT - 39:00
CPU USAGE - ALL FOUR CORES USED - 35%-85% (MOSTLY 40%-60%), NO BURSTS W/CONSTANT READ/WRITE, LOAD RANDOMLY BALANCED
RESULTING FLAC FILES - 7.12GB

Jeff
 
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pepar

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WoW! Can't wait Jeff!
OK, no FLAC for me with my Oppo BDP-80. So I won't be able to do the listening comparisons. And since I am moving toward a media server, it doesn't make sense to buy a newer Oppo for FLAC support only for the comparisons. My only real option is to accelerate the server build and to select the networked media player. Only after that is done will I be able to compare SACD original media to ripped, extracted and converted files, and then the conversions done by, i.e. Saracon vs. Philips/foobar.

One further note, I ripped the stereo SACD "Friday Night in San Francisco" to ISO in about 13 mins. Then I SACD Extracted it so fast I couldn't time it ... actually I wasn't paying close enough attention. So I paid attention and saw that it did the entire extraction in about 5 seconds. The ISO was 1.64GB and the resulting DFF's were 1.61GB.

Jeff
 

Bruce B

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Only after that is done will I be able to compare SACD original media to ripped, extracted and converted files, and then the conversions done by, i.e. Saracon vs. Philips/foobar.

You'll never be able to compare a ripped DSD file to an original SACD disc played on a player because every SACD player has filters in place to cut off high frequencies. Some even cut off everything above 22k while some go as high as 50k. Ripped files have no filter, unless you apply one.
 
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Bruce B

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Are you implying that the ripped/converted file has some advantage?
Jeff

It's always going to have the advantage because it's the raw file where you can add filters (or not) to taste!
 

Bruce B

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As I understand it, those filters are on SACD because they are needed to filter the HF noise. Are filters not needed after conversion?

I never use them... but, as I understand it, "some" equipment/speakers do bad things. Scarlet book has standards/limits for 20-50k and 50-100k noise. Not all SACD's adhere to the Scarlet book standard.
 

billh

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Nov 12, 2011
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I just converted all my ripped 2 channel DSD files to FLAC using Audiogate and I have to say it is one marvelous piece of software for this purpose. The files sound great, the process is straightforward and very fast. You can even add all your metadata from within the program, including album art. Too bad Audiogate won't do multichannel.
 

Ivory

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Hi Bruce,
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us.
I have almost finished ripping my SACD (over 400) with my PS3. I'm preparing to the PCM conversion since my sistem is a multichannel PCM based.
I was ready to purchase Saracon, but I don't like the idea of a step filter. I already have Audiogate with my MR 1000, and I may try batch conversion in multichannel as you said.
You also mention DiscWelder as another option. But soundwise, what do you suggest to use as a two/multichannel converter? Are there other options?

Thank you.

Luigi

P.S. Sorry for my english
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
Apr 25, 2010
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Hi Bruce, You also mention DiscWelder as another option. But soundwise, what do you suggest to use as a two/multichannel converter? Are there other options?
Thank you.
Luigi
P.S. Sorry for my english

Your English is fine....

The only decent MCH converters I know of that's now available are Saracon and DiscWelder. For 2-channel, we use custom filters that were written for us and also the Pyramix filters.
 

billh

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Nov 12, 2011
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DSD Converting Software

I just finished a pretty thorough tryout of Audiogate, Pyramix, Saracon and the Philips (now Sonic Studios) converter software. IMHO, here are the +/- of each for converting DSD to playable format via streaming (Flac, Wav, etc.)

1. Audiogate - Great for 2 channel and will convert directly to Flac and you can do your metatags right in the software. Will not do MCH. Has filter and dithering options as well as gain adjustment. Very easy to install and use and it is FREE! Just have to register a Twitter account as you will have to send a tweet for each conversion. Recommend for 2 channel.

2. Saracon - Works for 2 channel and MCH and will convert directly to Flac. Has options for gain and dithering - no filter options: Experts have reservations about its usefulness at sampling rates above 96k due to lack of filter options. No metatagging options so you'll need to use mp3tag or the like for that. Also very expensive - trial downloads are available to play with. Note: I did not like the way my converted files sounded using this one.

3. Philips ProTech AFC - works for 2 channel and MCH; However, cannot do batch conversions. Limited to one track at a time (unless you want to open mulitple windows which is very time consuming). Has good filter, dithering and gain options. Will not save to Flac so you must save to AIFF or WAVE and then use foobar or the like to get to flac. Then mp3tag for metatags. Old versions (2004) can be found on the web but Sonic Studios now owns this and the software is fairly pricey. They call it nexStage AFC.

4. Pyramix - Heavy duty professional mixing and editing console. Works for 2 channel and MCH converts to AIFF format. Good filtering and dithering options and gain is adjustable through the console. Very complex software to install and setup and very expensive. EDIT: Will save to FLAC for 2 channel in a roundabout way but MCH conversions to flac I don't think are possible (At least with the version I had it wasn't possible). MCH are converted to AIFF files and then you convert them to flac using foobar or the like. Not metagagging - much then use something like mp3tag. Pretty big learning curve on this software. Trial versions are available.

AFAIK, discWelder only works with sample rates at or below 96K and I don't know if it will do MCH conversions.

Thought I would post to save others some time - I spent a great deal of time sorting through these packages. I have all my 2 channel SACD's done and I'm still working on the MCH's (gonna be a lot slower process).
 
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