Ripping SACDs the right way

gsquared

Well-Known Member
May 10, 2011
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Hi Bruce,

In another thread (http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showt...to-evaluate-DACs&p=48325&viewfull=1#post48325) you said...

We've been ripping SACD's for about 3 years now for HDtracks.

My question is, what is the best way to rip an SACD, from the analog out using a quality A-to-D converter like a Metric Halo ULN-8, or from a digital out using Meitner gear or some other means of extracting the hi-rez audio?

Intuitively, it would seem that converting from the analog signal would not be the purist way to rip an SACD. Because essentially the recording will have gone from analog to digital, then to analog and back to digital again. Lots of conversions.

Since you've been doing this for quite some time, I'd love to get your comments on the "right way" to rip an SACD and what gear would yield the best results.

Gary
 

Bruce B

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I guess technically we're not "ripping" the data off. We're doing a direct 1:1 transfer of the digital DSD data stream and capturing it into our workstations.

We have 2 workstations that we use. The first one is:

Playback Designs MPS-5 out via ST-optical into a Sonoma workstation.

The second is;

EMM Labs CDSD out via ST-optical into an EMM Labs ADC8-IV changing the datastream from ST-optical to SDIF-3 and capturing the digital datastream into our Pyramix rig.

Both systems are top-notch and both do a bit-perfect copy of the DSD data.

Right now we are storing all the DSD data on 2 servers. For conversion to PCM we're using custom algorithms and downsampling to 24/176.4 and 24/88.2 for downloads.
 
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Bruce B

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Thanks Bruce. I figured it had to involve an EMM Labs piece. Is optical preferred over AES/EBU?

There are 3 main protocols for DSD signal transfer.

1. SDIF-2/3
2. MADI ST/SC optical
3. MADI coax

AES/EBU is not an approved DSD protocol
 
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Bruce B

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The best way would be the PS3 sacd ripping method:
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/

Unfortunately you will need to acquire a SACD capable PS3 player. I tried reading instructions but it was too confusing. Plus, on longer SACD's, you're up against the FAT32 size limit. After you make the disc, they're only playable on DSD ISO disc players.
I appreciate other methods, but the above methods I mentioned can be used with modern available equipment that you can plug-n-play.
 

mr_wicked

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Jul 9, 2011
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Unfortunately you will need to acquire a SACD capable PS3 player. I tried reading instructions but it was too confusing.

Getting the SACD compatible PS3 is not a big problem (there are millions out there), getting one with the proper firmware is (but definitely not impossible). There is also a big possibility a downgrade for higher firmwares (larger than 3.55) will become available in the near future.

Plus, on longer SACD's, you're up against the FAT32 size limit.

The software will allow you to output to DSDIFF or DSF. For those outputs the FAT32 size limit is not a problem at all. Only on ISO exports larger than 4GB SACD Ripper will split the ISO into multiple files which can be merged back together using file splitter for ex. (http://www.filesplitter.org/).

After you make the disc, they're only playable on DSD ISO disc players.

Not true. You can convert the DSDIFF, or DSF files to PCM if your DAC doesn't support DSD or you can burn the ripped ISO file to a DVD-R and play it back on one of the following players:
http://code.google.com/p/sacd-ripper/wiki/SACDRCompatiblePlayers

In other words; you get a 1-1 rip of your SACD (stereo AND multi channel!) and it's ripped on at least twice the normal reading speed and last but not least, all title and track information, etc.. is retained. This method is far superior than anything out there.

I've had users ripping their entire 700 disc collection and they reported very little to no problems..
 

mr_wicked

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I appreciate other methods, but the above methods I mentioned can be used with modern available equipment that you can plug-n-play.

The equipment you mention is not for people with little money in their pocket. You are talking about $10000 dollar plus equipment against a $200-$300 PS3 SACD player.
 

Bruce B

WBF Founding Member, Pro Audio Production Member
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The equipment you mention is not for people with little money in their pocket. You are talking about $10000 dollar plus equipment against a $200-$300 PS3 SACD player.

Well.. this IS "What's Best Forum".. not "What's Good Enough"
 

Bruce B

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Well reports are in that the PS3 ripping does not work on Classical discs where the track markers are during music being played, such as between movements. Also true for DSOTM and the Earth,Wind&Fire discs where there are no breaks.
The track markers HAVE to be at a "zero-crossing" point for it to be inaudible. Otherwise, you get a click between tracks.
 

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NorthStar

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Feb 8, 2011
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Ah thanks Bruce!

Personally the only thing that brought me here in this thread were the two words: SACD & Ripping.

So I simply read it with that interest from these two words, and found it captivating in the exchange between two knowledgeable people comin' from two differential tents (camps).
I was more interested by the possibilities and technical knowledge than the money aspect.
But then, my eyes expanded to a vaster horizon, and I put everything into realistic context.
So value became part of the equation, evidently.

SACD is probably my favorite musical medium along with DVD Audio.
But these two formats aren't exactly easily available at your Bestbuy store...

Blu-ray is also great, but it is not going in the Music direction (read Ultra High Resolution Audio),
but mainly oriented into Movies business.

You also have Internet and Music (& Movies too) Streaming.
Various formats (mediums), at various rates (audio resolutions) are available.
And you can even have High Resolution from the Internet Streaming! WoW!

BUT! Music Catalog & Newer Recordings Availability; that is the Question!
Seems to be alright...

Me?!! I listen to music a thousand times more than I rip!
And the reason why is very easy; it's playing right now as we speak, and it is loveable (Jazz solo piano right now, with saxophone...), so I'm just singing along the melody of my heart...

Life is short, and I ain't have time to search and work; I got time only for Living & Enjoying it!


* Thanks to you both for the cool reading.
 

pepar

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May 15, 2011
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Getting the SACD compatible PS3 is not a big problem (there are millions out there), getting one with the proper firmware is (but definitely not impossible). There is also a big possibility a downgrade for higher firmwares (larger than 3.55) will become available in the near future.
One week after learning about this I located and purchased a "proper" PS3 on eBay. A week after that, I had a second one . And I "met" an eBay seller, a dealer in used consoles, games and accessories, who claims to have a good supply of them passing through his hands. I paid 200 bucks each, and the seller asks $225 for them.

Jeff
 

billh

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Nov 12, 2011
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One week after learning about this I located and purchased a "proper" PS3 on eBay. A week after that, I had a second one . And I "met" an eBay seller, a dealer in used consoles, games and accessories, who claims to have a good supply of them passing through his hands. I paid 200 bucks each, and the seller asks $225 for them.

Jeff

Jeff - can you please PM me with the contact info for the seller on eBay? I have one PS3 being delivered today but would like to buy a backup (like you). Thanks.
 

pepar

New Member
May 15, 2011
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Yes Jeff, please tell us all about your findings! This is mostly interesting.


* Cheapest way to ripp SACDs, ya baby! ...And hopefully the right way as well.
I'll let others joust over whether it is the "right" way, but it certainly is affordable ... to the 99%. The comments from Bruce, though, have caused me to pause and want to do some comparison listening. I will compare the original SACD with the same content ripped to ISO, extracted and then FLAC'd. The need to do this is reinforced by Ted's comments (on another forum) on it. Perhaps a better route for those with media servers is to put their efforts into getting the PCH's and Dune's to add SACD ISO support to the already existing BD ISO support. FWIW, Oppo's already "do" BD and DVD-A ISO's read from storage.

Jeff
 

billh

New Member
Nov 12, 2011
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I'll let others joust over whether it is the "right" way, but it certainly is affordable ... to the 99%. The comments from Bruce, though, have caused me to pause and want to do some comparison listening. I will compare the original SACD with the same content ripped to ISO, extracted and then FLAC'd. The need to do this is reinforced by Ted's comments (on another forum) on it. Perhaps a better route for those with media servers is to put their efforts into getting the PCH's and Dune's to add SACD ISO support to the already existing BD ISO support. FWIW, Oppo's already "do" BD and DVD-A ISO's read from storage.

Jeff

If you use Audiogate, Saracon, Philips AFC or Foobar, I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on how the resultant FLAC files sound compared to the original disc. I'll be doing some of my SACD's this weekend. Will probably start with one stereo and one multichannel and see how they sound thru my NAS.
 

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