Is Dave Brubeck "Jazz-Lite"

caesar

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Several hard-bop musicians, including those who have played with Sinatra and those who have recorded with the best of the best, have told me that Brubeck is "not real jazz, but jazz-lite" They don't have the same respect for him as a pianist as they do for Bill Evans, Herbie Hancock, Chick Corea, Oscar Peterson, etc.

Do hard core jazz fans here agree?
 

LL21

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Dec 26, 2010
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I once heard Wynton Marsalis effectively said the same thing. I do listen to a reasonable amount of jazz...Coltrane, Red Garland, Thelonius Monk, Cannonball Atterly, Donald Byrd, Hank Mobley, Horace Silver, M Davis, Lou Donaldson...i also have Brubeck and like Time Out. I am not as much a fan of his subsequent album which i also have. While Time Out may not feel as heavy or "real man real" as some jazz, i find it good music. i do query whether Brubeck ended up appearing like a one-hit wonder.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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Revisionist nonsense. "Time Out" was brilliant then and now.

Tim
 

FrantzM

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Well P ....
aside from "Time Out" What has Dave Brubeck oriduced of substance .. Not much that I can recall from memory ...
 

RogerD

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That's a good one. Dave Brubeck was unique,some of my favorites are Jazz at Oberlin,Take five and Jazz impressions of Japan,among others. Brubeck was on the cover of Time magazine in 1954,he was cutting edge and a giant of the jazz world. Don't forget the legend Paul Desmond, who in my estimation can be counted as one of the top three to ever pick up a sax.
 

Phelonious Ponk

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He's had a few moments:

Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader, Volume 1 (1949)
Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader, Volume 2 (1949)
Brubeck/Desmond (1951)
Stardust (1951)
Dave Brubeck Quartet (1951)
Jazz at the Blackhawk (1952)
Dave Brubeck/Paul Desmond (1952)
Jazz at Storyville (live) (1952)
featuring Paul Desmond In Concert (live) (1953)
Two Knights at the Black Hawk (1953)
Jazz at Oberlin (1953) Fantasy Records
Dave Brubeck & Paul Desmond at Wilshire Ebell (1953)
Jazz at the College of the Pacific (1953) Fantasy Records
Jazz Goes to College (1954) Columbia Records
Dave Brubeck at Storyville 1954 (live) (1954)
Brubeck Time (1955)
Jazz: Red Hot And Cool (1955)
Brubeck Plays Brubeck (1956)
Dave Brubeck and Jay & Kai at Newport (1956)
Jazz Impressions of the U.S.A. (1956)
Plays and Plays and ... (1957) Fantasy Records
Reunion (1957) Fantasy Records
Jazz Goes to Junior College (live) (1957)
Dave Digs Disney (1957)
In Europe (1958)
Complete 1958 Berlin Concert (released 2008)
Newport 1958
Jazz Impressions of Eurasia (1958)
Gone with the Wind (1959) Columbia Records
Time Out (1959) Columbia Records/Legacy (RIAA: Platinum)
Southern Scene (1960)
The Riddle (1960)
Brubeck and Rushing (1960)
Brubeck a la Mode (1961) Fantasy Records
Tonight Only (1961)
Take Five Live (1961, released 1965)
Near-Myth (1961) Fantasy Records
Bernstein Plays Brubeck Plays Bernstein (1961)
Time Further Out (1961) Columbia Records/Legacy
Countdown—Time in Outer Space (1962) Columbia Records
The Real Ambassadors (1962)
Music From West Side Story (1962)
Bossa Nova U.S.A. (1962)
Brubeck in Amsterdam (1962, released 1969)
At Carnegie Hall (1963)
Brandenburg Gate: Revisited (1963) Columbia Records
Time Changes (album) (1963)
Dave Brubeck in Berlin (1964)
Jazz Impressions of Japan (1964) Columbia Records/Legacy
Jazz Impressions of New York (1964) Columbia Records/Legacy
Angel Eyes (1965)
My Favorite Things (1965)
The 1965 Canadian Concert (released 2008)
Time In (1966) Columbia Records
Anything Goes (1966)
Bravo! Brubeck! (1967)
Buried Treasures (1967, released 1998)
Jackpot (1967) Columbia Records
The Last Time We Saw Paris (1968)
Adventures in Time (Compilation, 1968) Columbia Records
The Light in the Wilderness (1968)
Compadres (1968)
Blues Roots (1968)
Brubeck/Mulligan/Cincinnati (1970)
Live at the Berlin Philharmonie (1970)
The Last Set at Newport (1971) Atlantic Records
Truth is Fallen (1972)
We're All Together Again For the First Time (1973)
Two Generations of Brubeck (1973)
Brother, the Great Spirit Made Us All (1974)
All The Things We Are (1974)
Brubeck & Desmond 1975: The Duets
DBQ 25th Anniversary Reunion (1976) A&M Records
The New Brubeck Quartet Live at Montreux (1978)
A Cut Above (1978)
La Fiesta de la Posada (1979)
Back Home (1979) Concord Records
Tritonis (1980)
Paper Moon (1982)
Concord on a Summer Night (1982)
For Iola (1984)
Marian McPartland's Piano Jazz with guest Dave Brubeck (1984, released 1993)
Reflections (1985)
Blue Rondo (1986)
Moscow Night (1987)
New Wine (1987, released 1990)
The Great Concerts (Compilation, 1988)
Quiet As The Moon (Charlie Brown soundtrack) (1991)
Once When I Was Very Young (1991)
Trio Brubeck (1993)
Late Night Brubeck (1994)
Just You, Just Me (solo) (1994)
Nightshift (1995)
Young Lions & Old Tigers (1995)
To Hope! A Celebration (1996)
A Dave Brubeck Christmas (1996)
In Their Own Sweet Way (1997)
So What's New? (1998)
The 40th Anniversary Tour of the U.K. (1999)
One Alone (2000)
Double Live From the USA & UK (2001)
The Crossing (2001)
Vocal Encounters (Compilation, 2001) Sony Records
Classical Brubeck (with the London Symphony Orchestra, 2003) Telarc
Park Avenue South (2003)
The Gates of Justice (2004)
London Flat, London Sharp (2005) Telarc
Indian Summer (2007) Telarc
Live at the Monterey Jazz Festival 1958-2007 (2008)
Yo-Yo Ma & Friends Brubeck tracks: Joy to the World, Concordia. (2008)Sony BMG

Of course I gave you the entire Wikipedia list for effect, :), but the point is that Brubeck has had a pretty productive and stunning career. I chose Time Out as my one example because it accomplished so much. It is at once accessible and innovative to a degree that is probably only exceeded by Kind of Blue. I love jazz, but much of it is a snob's game, and the easiest targets are the guys who become too popular with a mainstream audience. Brubeck definitely got that rap. I find it a bit ironic that the person who has criticized him for being a lightweight most loudly in recent decades is Wynton Marsalis. If all Brubeck had ever done was Time Out, he would have had a greater impact on jazz than Marsalis has had so far. Smells of sour grapes. Wynton's "Time Out" is still to come.

Tim
 

Johnny Vinyl

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He's thinner than most of the other piano greats, so yeah...of course!:p
 

Jay_S

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Brubeck is West Coast, cool jazz. His style is very different from hard bop. I'm not the biggest fan in the world of Brubeck, but the idea of his music as "jazz-lite" is ridiculous. As mentioned above, he has made significant contributions over many decades.
 
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JackD201

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Brubeck? Jazz Lite? Ridiculous.

I think Take 5 just suffered from "Radio Played To Death Syndrome". It happens to any artist who's work gets really popular. Well, sometimes it's the artist and sometimes just his piece. Sort of like Beethoven's 5th or Tchaikovsky's Piano Concerto No.2 becoming "Lite Classical".

And YES! Kenny G is Jazz Lite but his hair has got to weigh a few kilos. I'd love to see him and Michael Bolton go for a curly locks weigh off.
 

Ron Party

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I actually own both Kenny G and Michael Bolton albums. For the life of me, though, I don't have any idea how they came to be part of my collection. All I can think of is that former roommates left them behind.

It could be worse. I could have been left with Pat Boone! Phew.
 

RogerD

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I have one of Wynton's Cd's,from the Plantation to the Penitentiary, whatever Wynton tried to accomplish he did not make a landmark. This CD is two steps removed from being a frisbee of my back deck.
 

JackD201

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I actually own both Kenny G and Michael Bolton albums. For the life of me, though, I don't have any idea how they came to be part of my collection. All I can think of is that former roommates left them behind.

It could be worse. I could have been left with Pat Boone! Phew.

Worse yet Pat Boone singing Metal! Hahahahahaha!
 

FrantzM

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He's had a few moments:

Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader, Volume 1 (1949)
Brubeck Trio with Cal Tjader, Volume 2 (1949)
<Long List of Brubeck's album SNIP>
Yo-Yo Ma & Friends Brubeck tracks: Joy to the World, Concordia. (2008)Sony BMG

Of course I gave you the entire Wikipedia list for effect, :), but the point is that Brubeck has had a pretty productive and stunning career. I chose Time Out as my one example because it accomplished so much. It is at once accessible and innovative to a degree that is probably only exceeded by Kind of Blue. I love jazz, but much of it is a snob's game, and the easiest targets are the guys who become too popular with a mainstream audience. Brubeck definitely got that rap. I find it a bit ironic that the person who has criticized him for being a lightweight most loudly in recent decades is Wynton Marsalis. If all Brubeck had ever done was Time Out, he would have had a greater impact on jazz than Marsalis has had so far. Smells of sour grapes. Wynton's "Time Out" is still to come.

Tim

P

I beg to differ on the matter of Wynton Marsalis vs Dave Brubeck ... Time Out was that a good and very popular album. No doubt about that. Subsequent albums by Dave Brubeck were just that ... albums.. Some good, some bad, most not memorable... He is a good pianist, not a Master one of many good pianists the world of jazz has known... I wold not put him in the Peterson, Ellington , Monk or even Hancock class more in the Errol Garner level .. Good pianist, decent commercial success but not ground breaking or movement spawning ..
A criticism remains for what it states not what the critic has produced... I would however dare compare the output of Marsalis to that of Dave Brubeck and IMO, Wynton Marsalis would have gotten the nod ...

Just a note. " From the Plantation to the Penitentiary" message is pompous, its attempts at social criticism, I think, is overdone and somewhat arrogant... Musically it is very good .. again not earth shaking .. simply good
 

caesar

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May 30, 2010
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... He is a good pianist, not a Master one of many good pianists the world of jazz has known... I wold not put him in the Peterson, Ellington , Monk or even Hancock class more in the Errol Garner level .. Good pianist, decent commercial success but not ground breaking or movement spawning ..

This is exactly what the musicians I was referring to above said about Brubeck. This does raise an excellent question of what is "greatness"? And to a lot of hard core jazz guys is that someone great does what no one else does, and takes the piano to a new plateau. With Brubeck, the truly original work was with time signatures, but according to the gurus, not much else.

By the way, I really love Brubeck. I have many of the albums Phelonious has listed, play him at least once or twice a week, and have heard him play live several times.

http://www.time.com/time/covers/0,16641,19541108,00.html
 

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