Ethernet

barrows · Feb 20, 2018

Best way to "optimize for audio" is to use Ethernet and get the commercial computer gear away from the system. This is why Sonore Rendu products exist. The Rendu streamers are actually "optimized for audio" and by that I mean:

1. Ultra low noise power supplies.
2. A custom main board with multiple power supply domains, each one powered by its own ultra low noise linear regulator (you will never find this in a commercial MoBo)
3. On the ultraRendu and Signtaure Rendu SE, a femto clock to govern all processing and USB audio duties (yes, phase noise of this clock matters) with a dedicated supply rail.
4. Specially selected USB hub for output with the best possible signal integrity (not the cheapest part, the best part)
5. A specially developed operating system designed just for audio playback and nothing else, this reduces processing power and noise further.

It is rather amusing to me that audiophiles who do not question the need for special power cables, "optimized for audio", think it is perfectly OK to attach a commercial grade laptop directly to a DAC via USB and expect top sound quality in playback.

BobShermanEsq · Feb 21, 2018

Kal Rubinson said:
I see the phrase "optimized for audio" frequently but rarely do I see it explained or justified.

Hi Kal,

Maybe you have been looking in the wrong places. The post above is a good explanation.

regards
Bob

Empirical Audio · Feb 21, 2018

barrows said:
Best way to "optimize for audio" is to use Ethernet and get the commercial computer gear away from the system. This is why Sonore Rendu products exist. The Rendu streamers are actually "optimized for audio" and by that I mean:

1. Ultra low noise power supplies.
2. A custom main board with multiple power supply domains, each one powered by its own ultra low noise linear regulator (you will never find this in a commercial MoBo)
3. On the ultraRendu and Signtaure Rendu SE, a femto clock to govern all processing and USB audio duties (yes, phase noise of this clock matters) with a dedicated supply rail.
4. Specially selected USB hub for output with the best possible signal integrity (not the cheapest part, the best part)
5. A specially developed operating system designed just for audio playback and nothing else, this reduces processing power and noise further.

It is rather amusing to me that audiophiles who do not question the need for special power cables, "optimized for audio", think it is perfectly OK to attach a commercial grade laptop directly to a DAC via USB and expect top sound quality in playback.

I agree, plus add direct Ethernet-I2S DAC interface to that list, using wired, optical or WiFi. Just eliminate USB if not already there.

One thing to note is that even Ethernet playback engines use DSP for volume control and in some cases, it colors the sound even if the volume is set to max. I demonstrated this recently comparing Jriver to Minimserver with control by Linn Kinsky. The SQ is audibly different between these even though they are both DLNA servers.

The moral is that even Ethernet has some SQ considerations. Some of the same considerations that straight USB playback engines have.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Pb Blimp · Feb 21, 2018

Empirical Audio said:
I agree, plus add direct Ethernet-I2S DAC interface to that list, using wired, optical or WiFi. Just eliminate USB if not already there.

One thing to note is that even Ethernet playback engines use DSP for volume control and in some cases, it colors the sound even if the volume is set to max. I demonstrated this recently comparing Jriver to Minimserver with control by Linn Kinsky. The SQ is audibly different between these even though they are both DLNA servers.

The moral is that even Ethernet has some SQ considerations. Some of the same considerations that straight USB playback engines have.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Steve, Do you have a playback engine over ethernet that you feel has the least DSP coloration when playing bit perfect (i.e., no upsampling or intentional DSP activity)? I know many prefer HQ Player over Roon for the reasons you state re coloration.

Kal Rubinson · Feb 21, 2018

It seems so. The efforts are listed and explained. My issue is whether or how much these efforts actually have significant effects.

Empirical Audio · Feb 22, 2018

Pb Blimp said:
Steve, Do you have a playback engine over ethernet that you feel has the least DSP coloration when playing bit perfect (i.e., no upsampling or intentional DSP activity)? I know many prefer HQ Player over Roon for the reasons you state re coloration.

Yes, Minimserver with Linn Kinsky controlling it. IMO, this is much more live sounding than Jriver, particularly noticeable on acoustic guitar. I never do any upsampling or DSP if I can avoid it.

Unfortunately, I discovered this AFTER the first review of my new Ethernet DAC:

https://www.audiostream.com/content/empirical-audio-overdrive-sx-ethernet-dacpre

Next reviewer will use Kinsky.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

analogsa · Feb 22, 2018

Pb Blimp said:
a playback engine over ethernet that you feel has the least DSP coloration when playing bit perfect

This is such a strange question: by definition "bit perfect" means no DSP processing, no volume control, no processing at all. I am unaware of any player software where the DSP cannot be switched off. Of course an active volume control function automatically means the output is not bit perfect. Setting it on the highest level does not automatically disable it and there is no reason to assume it would.

barrows · Feb 22, 2018

analogsa said:
This is such a strange question: by definition "bit perfect" means no DSP processing, no volume control, no processing at all. I am unaware of any player software where the DSP cannot be switched off. Of course an active volume control function automatically means the output is not bit perfect. Setting it on the highest level does not automatically disable it and there is no reason to assume it would.

Yes there is. With digital based volume control, if it is set to o attenuation, the output will be bit perfect, unless whoever designed the playback software made a mistake.

Pb Blimp · Feb 22, 2018

analogsa said:
This is such a strange question: by definition "bit perfect" means no DSP processing, no volume control, no processing at all. I am unaware of any player software where the DSP cannot be switched off. Of course an active volume control function automatically means the output is not bit perfect. Setting it on the highest level does not automatically disable it and there is no reason to assume it would.

Ya I should have said "trying" to play bit perfect. Many complain about stuff going on in players behind the scene that cause jitters; some of it might be unintentional dsp some of it jitter induced by file management or whatever.

The origin of the question itself come from the fact that many feel one player sounds better than another and question whether the origin of this difference is partially related to DSP going on behind the scenes.

Empirical Audio · Feb 22, 2018

barrows said:
Yes there is. With digital based volume control, if it is set to o attenuation, the output will be bit perfect, unless whoever designed the playback software made a mistake.

I cannot imagine any software engineers making a mistake or writing imperfect code, particularly Microsoft

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

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Ethernet

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