High-Resolution Network Streamers: Upgrading From SqueezeBox 3

igufi

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Apr 12, 2011
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As a part of a larger system upgrade, I'm looking for a replacement for my SqueezeBox 3 to enable me to listen for high-resolution audio up to 24bit/192khz.

Currently, the SB3 is being served FLAC-files via an old mac-mini running the SqueezeCenter software. The devices are connected to the local LAN via gigabit ethernet.

While I really like the built-in screen on the SB3 I'm willing to give it up, as long as I can control the streaming via iPhonen or iPod Touch devices (like the iPeng app).

Here is the current shortlist (with the features that seemed most relevant for me):

1. NAIM DAC
- UPnP/DLNA support
- has the highest resolution support, up to 768kHz/32-bit
- has the most digital inputs (4x coax, 4x optical)
- is the most expensive, priced at 2490.00 €

2. LINN Sekrit DS-I
- UPnP/DLNA support
- streams FLACs up to 24bit/192khz
- two digital inputs (1x coax, 1x optical)
- priced at 2170 €

3. LINN Sneaky
- UPnP/DLNA support
- streams FLACs up to 24bit/192khz
- has no digital inputs
- Priced at 1470 €

4. Oppo BDP-93EU
- UPnP/DLNA support but still unstable
- streams FLACs up to 24bit/192Khz
- has no digital inputs
- priced at 605€ (BDP-95EU is 1050€)

The most important criterion is the high-resolution playback/streaming of FLAC files. After this comes the usability/reliability aspect - are the devices are actually UPnP/DLNA certified (or whether that really matters?), how well they handle large music collections or multi-channel audio, how different are the various UPnP/DLNA server software out there etc. Finally, since I tend to do upgrades to my system very seldom, a certain "future compatibility" does add some weight to decision (e.g. number and types of inputs/outputs, format support, likelihood of firmware upgrades).

For the control part, I've found 3 UPnP/DLNA compatible "remote controls" for the iOS: SongBook UPNP, iMediaControl and SmartStor Fusion Stream, all free. But since I don't have DLNA streamers I cannot really test them for usability/stability.

So here's my question: which of these devices would fill my needs the best? Are there any other solutions out there that I should also consider? Am I concentrating on the right aspects of the devices? Eventually I will start the actual audit of the devices, so obviously sound quality is also important but highly subjective and therefore I'm not asking for comparison in that area..

Thank you for your comments in advance.

(It should be noted that I don't have high-end equipment, but I've found that streaming music has really brought my music collection "back to me" - I converted all my CDs to FLAC a few years ago and haven't looked back since. Now I'm very interested in starting a digital collection of the studio masters and other lossless music sold by Linn, 2L etc. and I want to make sure my equipment can handle it.)
 

R Johnson

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Jul 24, 2010
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Before going to the rather expensive units mentioned, you might consider the low cost SB Touch, though it "only" does 24/96. The sonic benefit of going beyond 24/96 is likely to be very subtle.
 

Vincent Kars

WBF Technical Expert: Computer Audio
Jul 1, 2010
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Most of these Music Servers are what they are, a PC with a sound card dressed up as audio gear.
An obvious alternative is a PC with or a good sound card or an outboard USB DAC.
I’m afraid Linn, Naim, etc. sells you an audio PC at a premium not justified by the sound quality or the user interface.

DLNA certified is important as a lot of DLNA implementations are a bit feeble.
Check user forums for problems.

The Hirez catalogue is small, the part > 96 kHz very small.

Wonder why you need all those inputs?
A server with all of your audio will do.

http://thewelltemperedcomputer.com/HW/HD_players.html
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
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rblnr

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I have a few SB Touch units feeding good dacs, and see no reason to 'upgrade'. I'm not convinced anything out there is better as a streamer/transport, only more expensive. And you can hack it to output via USB which if you have an asynchronous dac, may be the ideal.

The ability to stream 24/96 was a big deal to me -- couldn't wait for it to come out to replace my 3s. And the touch interface along w/iPeng for iOS is far better than most of the stuff out there.

Perhaps because I'm a mac guy, DLNA, et al means nothing to me.
 

Kal Rubinson

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May 4, 2010
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Before going to the rather expensive units mentioned, you might consider the low cost SB Touch, though it "only" does 24/96. The sonic benefit of going beyond 24/96 is likely to be very subtle.
The SBT will handle 24/192 via its S/PDIF output.
 

rblnr

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You sure on that Kal? Think its max is 24/96.
 

igufi

Well-Known Member
Apr 12, 2011
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Finland
Thank you for the suggestions. While it's true that the very highest resolution music files are still few and far between, I still believe that this will change in the coming years and I'd prefer to avoid constant update cycle - I'm hoping my purchase will carry me at least for the next 4-5 years.

I will definitely have a second look at the SB Touch but I'd love to hear your views on how well the SqueezeCenter handles the downsampling to 24/96, assuming that I will still be purchasing the 24/192 files for my collection?

edit: I haven't read the whole thread yet, but this discussion seems to indicate that the SB Touch is very much capable of 24/192 at least at the hardware level.
 
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Mr Underhill

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Apr 30, 2011
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Thoughts

As I own some of this gear thought I would add a couple of points:

Naim DAC:

The Naim DAC is not compatible with uPNP or DLNA.
It also only accepts SPDIF/toslink.

It IS a very good DAC. I moved to this from a Benchmark DAC1, which is an excellent bit of kit. I would NOT say the Naim is a 'step up' from the BM, I think superlatives get used too easily. I think it is a bit better - and it is a digital hub, which is important for me.

Oppo 83:

I also own the Oppo 83.

I do run a DLNA server at home, and so experimented with using the Oppo as a renderer.

Oppo have updated their firmware to pass 24bit files, but the resulting sound was far from HiFi. Shame, I really hoped it would be good.


Other Digital Solutions:

I use a Naim NS01 to access my remote fileserver. Naim use Microsoft as their base OS, so the technology used is SMB - windows shares.

Historically I have used computers as my end-point/renderer, and had some excellent results. I used the CMP (cPlay) methodologies to reduce the OS to the absolute minimum, which included turning off networking - sounded very good (using a HiFace for output from the USB -> DAC) but was also quiet inconvenient, like using a turntable.

The NS01/nDAC gives me the best digital audio I have had at home, and frequently beats my LP12 - which is saying something.


Linn:

Their solutions are very well considered. A friend of mine went from the Naim DAC to the top of the line DS, and is very pleased. Linn has a certain presentation, and I would strongly suggest having a listen.


Other Suggestions:

Depending if you like getting involved in making your own gear I would think about looking at the CICS / cPlay route, and maybe look at Linux MPD.


Digital Audio Availability:

There are increaing amounts available. I would rec. joining B&W Sound Society. Relatively cheap, lots of 24/48 tracks, eclectic. 50% LSO live performances.

HDTracks are doing increasing amounts of 'classic' rock albums.

Linn have their Studio Master range.

Naim have their own label.

Chandos have classical range.


There have been complaints that some HiDef tracks are simply standard Def that have been processed to higher def, but have no more info. There are enough savvy people out there looking at this, and calling companies to task.


Differences SD vs HD:

Trying to get the same master at different resolutions is always interesting. Have a look here:

http://www.soundkeeperrecordings.com/format.htm

What do you think?

M
 

Kal Rubinson

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The SBT will handle 24/192 via its S/PDIF output.

You sure on that Kal? Think its max is 24/96.

Absolutely, if you are streaming from the Squeezebox host. It will not do it from the local USB source. See: http://www.stereophile.com/mediaservers/logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/index.html

EDIT: Well, again, I pulled the trigger too fast. So, yes, it will play 24/192 via SBS but it downsamples it to 24/96.


BTW, I would steer away from using a player as an essential link in any streamer solution. Player needs change and so do those of streaming but why have the considerations for one impose themselves on the other?
 
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rblnr

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Don't think it does beyond 24/96 Kal. Have tried it via the Squeezebox Server, most recently, The Stones' Beggar's Banquet from HDTracks which is 24/176.4 -- both the Berkeley and Bel Canto DACs which are capable of 24/192 show 88.2 as the sampling rate -- the Touch downsamples the digital out.

This according to John Swenson who you know:

Last is SBS. It has to know about 192 and know that something is 192 and what to do with it. Since it is currently being downsampled it seems like SBS knows about it. So it most likely needs to be updated so it knows the Touch could play 192 so it won't resample.

So the two biggies seem to be: does slimproto handle 192, and does the Touch ALSA driver support 192.

So yes it IS just software, but there might be several pieces of software that need to be updated to make it work.


John S.
 
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