Confessions of a audio tweaker and the quest for the live illusion.

RogerD

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After reading and adding my 2 cents to some of the "live" and low level distortion threads. I thought I would tell you what I have learned or experienced over 40+ years in audio.

The key to great sound is getting rid of as much electrical hash as possible.

What does that mean? Well it can become as involved or simple as you want.

Now I am not a technical engineer so my conclusions can be dismissed out of hand or embraced in some measure. If you do,do some of the things mentioned,please vet everything.

By far the biggest improvement in sound in my system has been to ground it correctly. That is creating a earth ground for the preamp,amplifiers,source and whatever is tied to the preamp. I created a super highway back to ground so all or most of the "crap" noise can be given a exit from my system.

There is just alot of RFI &EMI pollution and just plain low level noise created and is inherent in the current that we call "power".

Now some equipment is just fine as the grounding scheme is done correctly, but in my experience that is not always the case.

Has all the money spent on cables,capacitors, and better equipment been a waste? No! that is part of the solution if those items reduce the low level noise in your system.

The solution is cumualtive in my experience. As each step is taken it will effect everything, right down to the type of circuit,capacitors used,cabling, ground scheme of the equipment and so forth.

I have had the same preamp for 35 years. I recapped it 3 years ago with low noise electrolytics,it did make a difference.

I have upgraded my cables to better ones that reduce EMI &RFI contamination. It did make a difference,but I do use pro audio style cables that are "cheap" in my long runs and they sound fine. They are after the main body of cables I have in place.

I stiil tweak things,for example I found a 10 ga roll of multi strand automotive wire the other day. So I cut some 2 ft pieces and put spade connectors on them. I added these to the already in place 14 ga wire connecting from my monoblocks to me preamp. Eash 10 gauge wire was connected to a large screw on the back corner of the metal case of the amplifier to the case screws on my Accuphase C200. The Accuphase has many screws on the case.

I powered up the system and there was greater clarity right off the bat with more tonal saturation also. The soundstage also became more life like. But the big surprise was the next day after about 12 hours. while listening everything in the electrical chain must have re-equalised because the sound morphed into a spectacular reproducton of what was recorded. About as close to in house 'live" music as I have ever experienced.

Can it get better? Probably so. Do you think it is possible? That's up to you. Do your homework,talk to your manufacturer about his grounding design if possible. My equipment is not expensive except for my SS monoblocks. I would not want to be responsible for someone's equipment failure.

I'm just giving you some meat and potatoes to chew on.

http://www.mikfielding.com/grounding_systems.shtml
 
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garylkoh

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Thanks, Roger. I had a similar recommendation to use a chemical ground rod to create a totally separate ground for the hifi system. Many of my customers have one of these systems installed with great result.

Your "ground superhighway" is a great idea - to bring the ground up INTO the system. You mentioned using 10awg wire, and putting a spade connector on it. If you soldered or crimped the spade connector on you might want to try a hydraulic crimp. Something like this:
http://www.amazon.com/Hydraulic-Crimping-Tool-22mm-Stroke/dp/B0046D2X48
 

RogerD

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Hi Gary,

Thanks for the info. I was in the Auto parts business for years. I have so many tools I will never use them all. That super highway earth ground is used by the majority of recording engineers when they set up studios I believe,I could be wrong though.
 

fas42

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That super highway earth ground is used by the majority of recording engineers when they set up studios I believe,I could be wrong though.
You're not wrong, Roger. I've read where they have punched holes through concrete floors and foundations, and inserted massive copper rods/spikes through, going straight down, in a short a path to ground as possible solution to noise problems ...

Frank
 

RogerD

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Hi Frank,

Now I have brought in 4 dedicated AV circuits for my system. I also purchased the hubbell cryoed outlets, that alone improved the sound. I think many of us at some point get glimpses of this phenomena,but because we are constanly fooling with our systems,make changes and suddenly create a mismatch all unintended. But once you realise what the "real deal" is and that is ground compatibility you can take things in measured steps with a solid foundation underneath.

You have to experience it once to know exactly what you are experiencing and then build on that. I had a gentleman over at Audiogon answer my question about EMI & RFI contamination. He enlightened me about creating the super highway so all the low level noise can be whisked away. Funny thing he told me I would need about a 15 dollar investment. I think most audiophiles thought he was nuts. I know better,the best 15 bucks I ever spent.

As far as the equalisation, That part is a mystery,but I think the majority of us have experienced it when breaking in new speaker cables,capacitors or NOS tubes. Thank god this tweak doesn't take 200 hours.

This is not some hocus pocus it is pure science. Once you realise that there are ways to reduce low level noise or distortion,but the only way to cleanse the signal path is to create a passage for the noise to travel out of the system and back to ground it makes perfect sense.
 

fas42

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As far as the equalisation, That part is a mystery,but I think the majority of us have experienced it when breaking in new speaker cables,capacitors or NOS tubes. Thank god this tweak doesn't take 200 hours.

This is not some hocus pocus it is pure science. Once you realise that there are ways to reduce low level noise or distortion,but the only way to cleanse the signal path is to create a passage for the noise to travel out of the system and back to ground it makes perfect sense.
The equalisation as you call it is a form of stabilising, a settling down of the system into an equilibrium. When I first was really getting somewhere it took about 3 days to get there! The worst offender was the CD player, a Yamaha dreadnought. So the obvious answer was to run everything 24/7! My solution at the time to the earthing aspect, was to switch everything off momentarily, to reset the "imbalances" that proper earthing would have largely solved, and then listen carefully before the setup went out of balance again ...

Unfortunately, I believe that there is more than earthing that has to be dealt with. Every system will have its own set of "problems", weaknesses, with yours it was earthing. As an example of what I mean, Vince has a system working at the good level, but earthing is never something he has had to worry about, he has tweaked in other areas.

So, the answers are not as simple as we would hope they could be, every system will have to be dealt with in a way appropriate for itself ...

Frank
 

RogerD

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I found the thread about the super highway on the GON.

02-22-09: Danmyers
What Powder is describing sounds like normal (and what I would recommend) grounding to earth ground. Clio, your question was regarding floating ground and the bypass cap will work and still maintain a floating ground.

But as everyone on this thread agrees, good grounding is essential to shunt any RFI energy away from your system. The shield on your cables and the metal around your components will shield them from RFI BUT (and it's a big BUT) you have to move that RF energy away from your system or it will find another way in.

The way electricity works is it flows down the path of least resistance. So you need to provide a super-highway for the RF energy to travel on that moves it away from your system. If you do, you'll never hear the RFI. That is one of the main purposes of grounding. RFI has some other characteristics that we can use to whisk it away. Without going into the details it's to use wide and flat grounding straps and bypass capacitors to "widen" the super-highway for RF energy. We can also use ferrite beads to absorb the RF energy before it enters your system.

So far, this the only money we've spent is probably $20 for flat/wide copper braid ground straps and $1 on bypass caps. Connect the braid to each of your components keeping the lengths as short as possible (use a "star shaped" configuration). Then run some braid from the center of the star to earth ground (the roundish hole in your electrical wall socket). You should also buy some ferrite beads and put these around your power cord and each end of your interconnects. This will add another $15 to your bill. A final remedy for RFI is shielding. Not in the cable, but shielding the entire component from either radiating or receiving RFI. You can do this with heavy aluminum foil and some of that flat/wide copper braid (ie the aluminum foil has to be grounded to be an effective shield).

Now assuming your interconnects aren't completely horrible (they must be shielded if you are having RFI problems) your system will be properly grounded. It will sound like it's on steroids with incredible inky blackness and the notes appearing in space out of nowhere with no hum or hiss and holographic realism that will rival the big buck systems! WOW! INCREDIBLE!

As a final note, I'll add that most people do not have either RFI or EMI problems. Only those who live near a radio tower or some other structure/device that generates RF. This is why most people can just use regular wire and not flat/wide copper braid to ground their systems and get WOW fantastic inky black backgrounds for $3 instead of $35 (most people don't need the bypass caps or the ferrite beads either). But they don't hurt and they are inexpensive so better safe than sorry.

I think that covers it... did I leave out anything? Probably, but these are the basics of the simple, inexpensive, things anyone can do to properly shield their system from RFI. There are a few more things for extreme cases and EMI like BALUNs and chokes, but these are inexpensive, too.

So take some time to learn and implement these basics yourself. Or buy a beautiful box for almost ten thousand dollars and more cables at three grand per meter. Another option is to hire an electrician to come out and properly ground your system. That will probably cost you a few hundred dollars, but you'll know it's done correctly. I can describe the science, but the art and pride of ownership is certainly worth something. How much is your choice.

http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?fcabl&1234813956&openfrom&1&4#1
 

RogerD

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The equalisation as you call it is a form of stabilising, a settling down of the system into an equilibrium. When I first was really getting somewhere it took about 3 days to get there! The worst offender was the CD player, a Yamaha dreadnought. So the obvious answer was to run everything 24/7! My solution at the time to the earthing aspect, was to switch everything off momentarily, to reset the "imbalances" that proper earthing would have largely solved, and then listen carefully before the setup went out of balance again ...

Unfortunately, I believe that there is more than earthing that has to be dealt with. Every system will have its own set of "problems", weaknesses, with yours it was earthing. As an example of what I mean, Vince has a system working at the good level, but earthing is never something he has had to worry about, he has tweaked in other areas.

So, the answers are not as simple as we would hope they could be, every system will have to be dealt with in a way appropriate for itself ...

Frank

Speakers are very important as Gary can readily agree. The circuit design is another one. Equipment ground design, Using low noise capacitors is another, Cabling that is designed to reduce RFI &EMI is another. The bottom line is you have to do your homework. Don't take anything for granted just because the price is high or the everybody has this brand or that one. I think most equipment at this level is well made. It's an easy tell if the equipment is compatible. I put my Vac's in the star earth circuit,the soundstage collapsed and my speakers were like polka dotted concrete blocks. I removed the wire and eveything snapped back to magic. That tells you that the VAC is star grounded,no need to include that amplifier. My SS monoblocks were just the opposite. I later talked to the manufacture and he mentioned that the grounding scheme had been changed with great sonic benifits,but I already knew that.
 

RogerD

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I have the "Chinatown" Cd,a great disc,on that disc is a tune from the 1930's,the one about I can't get started with you. It sounds pretty good,but not on the same level as the rest of the disc. A funny thing as when I first started my low level noise eradication trip and purchased IC's and had my VAC 70's with my Accuphase,I went on buying binge and bought about every Fantasy records CD I could find. Larry Young's Testifying CD has a cut the last one that the sax bloom is sensational. I brought this disc over to a buddies and said hey play this it sounds wonderful. Well is sounded like crap and I'm standing there and he thinks I'm off my rocker. The answer was his system did not capture the natural bloom of the sax. It took me a few days to actually grasp what had happened.
 
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fas42

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I brought this disc over to a buddies and said hey play this it sounds wonderful. Well is sounded like crap and I'm standing there and he thinks I'm off my rocker. the answer was his system did not capture the natural bloom of the sax. It took me a few days to actually grasp what had happened.
Yep, you've certainly got it! The terms you're using make it abundantly clear. Interesting you didn't make make a bigger noise earlier on about what you getting to the other people here ...

So did you try that ear to the tweeter exercise at all?

Frank
 

LL21

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Hi all...sorry for being dense but i really, really do not want to electrocute myself. So on this grounding thing...what do we do exactly? i get a bunch of 2ft lengths of wire. i then attach them where exactly on each component...to any screw or metal bit on the exterior of the unit (transport, DAC, pre and amp)? what do i do with each of these wires then? Should they all be connected to each other...or will i somehow end up shorting one or all of the components? And then i stick the wires where exactly in the socket? i hate to say "duh"...but i am getting the sense as i think about this...if i am not careful, i am going to be sticking a whole bunch of wires in a live socket and blowing everything up.

sorry...but perhaps if someone could do a step 1, step 2 for Idiots, i will actually try this. I have seen the benefits of one of those expensive (actually super expensive) grounding blocks which are plugged into the wall with 6 wires coming out the back which are connected to anywhere on each component...so i am curious to see if i can replicated some part of that benefit. thanks! and sorry for being dense.
 

LL21

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Star Grounding Lloyd
Hi Steve, Thanks for your help. I am going to embarrass myself as someone who is fortunate to have a pretty world-class rig...but i have heard star grounding...but do not know what it is. As i admitted, "idiot".
 

LL21

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i've looked it up but am not 100% "dummy" sure i know what i am doing with each of these wires. i'll try to talk to a tech here in the UK and get it straight. thanks.
 

RogerD

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Hi all...sorry for being dense but i really, really do not want to electrocute myself. So on this grounding thing...what do we do exactly? i get a bunch of 2ft lengths of wire. i then attach them where exactly on each component...to any screw or metal bit on the exterior of the unit (transport, DAC, pre and amp)? what do i do with each of these wires then? Should they all be connected to each other...or will i somehow end up shorting one or all of the components? And then i stick the wires where exactly in the socket? i hate to say "duh"...but i am getting the sense as i think about this...if i am not careful, i am going to be sticking a whole bunch of wires in a live socket and blowing everything up.

sorry...but perhaps if someone could do a step 1, step 2 for Idiots, i will actually try this. I have seen the benefits of one of those expensive (actually super expensive) grounding blocks which are plugged into the wall with 6 wires coming out the back which are connected to anywhere on each component...so i am curious to see if i can replicated some part of that benefit. thanks! and sorry for being dense.

Hello LLoyd,

As Steve says it is star grounding,

On your outlet that your preamp is plugged into there is the small center plate screw,this is the screw that you attach the 10 ga length wire that you have terminted with a spade connector. The other end of this wire with a connector is fastened to a chassis screw on the outside of your preamp. Use only the outlet screw that the preamp power cord is using. See if this makes any difference. I then connected every other piece that has interconnects to the preamp ie. CD player,running a 12 ga wire between that and the preamp. I use seperate connections (screws on the preamp chassis),my accuphase has about 20 different screws on the case. I used 10 ga wire to connect my amplifiers. Do not put a wire into the outlet! This is only on the ground!

If you feel uncomfortable at all,I would see if a friend with a general knowledge of electrical basics can help you.
 

RogerD

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Lloyd,

Nobody is a idiot that loves music. Just take it slow and contact that tech friend,you will be fine and enjoy the music.
 

RogerD

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i've looked it up but am not 100% "dummy" sure i know what i am doing with each of these wires. i'll try to talk to a tech here in the UK and get it straight. thanks.

Lloyd,

Since you are located in the U.K. I would contact your friend.
 

garylkoh

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Lloyd,

I would be extremely careful if I were you. The UK and US are completely different with respect to the way electricity is delivered to the house, and even different where ground is concerned. In the US, ground ties to neutral where the powerline enters the home. In the UK, neutral is tied to ground at the nearest electrical substation, and ground needs to be a singular point at the entry of the powerline.

The center screw that Roger is talking about ties in to ground on most electrical outlets in the US. In the UK, the plate configuration is very different. Star grounding different pieces of equipment in the US is a great benefit because of potential ground/neutral loop.

Even the breakers used are different. In the UK, you are very likely to have ELCB's and RCBO's. Some of these will trip if there is any significant path between neutral and ground. In the US, neutral is tied to ground.
 

RogerD

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Lloyd,

I would be extremely careful if I were you. The UK and US are completely different with respect to the way electricity is delivered to the house, and even different where ground is concerned. In the US, ground ties to neutral where the powerline enters the home. In the UK, neutral is tied to ground at the nearest electrical substation, and ground needs to be a singular point at the entry of the powerline.

The center screw that Roger is talking about ties in to ground on most electrical outlets in the US. In the UK, the plate configuration is very different. Star grounding different pieces of equipment in the US is a great benefit because of potential ground/neutral loop.

Even the breakers used are different. In the UK, you are very likely to have ELCB's and RCBO's. Some of these will trip if there is any significant path between neutral and ground. In the US, neutral is tied to ground.

Thanks for that very important point and information. What I suggested is only for the U.S., as in all other parts of world different wiring and voltage

specifications are used.
 

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