Wadia S7i

Bar81

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2017
129
20
98
Yes, the reason that it is lacking in detail retrieval is that it simply doesn't have the ability to resolve the detail that my EMM Labs XDS1 could, which is now significantly eclipsed by the detail retrieval of my current front end.

Look, nobody is telling you that you shouldn't stick with and enjoy your Wadia. Just don't delude yourself - it's simply outclassed by today's SOTA digital (note I didn't say all digital - almost all of these hyped low to mid-range sub$15k units aren't anywhere as good imo as everyone goes on about so I could definitely understand preference for the older generation Wadia - hell, I'd probably be one of those people).

Btw, if I were you, the last thing I would focus on is detail retrieval as that's pretty easy to objectively compare. If you had said you prefer the older Wadia's warm sound and subterranean tubby bass, you'd be on much more solid ground as that's a preference and is certainly understandable (I actually have a fondness for that romantic Wadia sound but the SOTA digital world has moved on).
 

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
280
193
273
Look, nobody is telling you that you shouldn't stick with and enjoy your Wadia. Just don't delude yourself - it's simply outclassed by today's SOTA digital (note I didn't say all digital - almost all of these hyped low to mid-range sub$15k units aren't anywhere as good imo as everyone goes on about so I could definitely understand preference for the older generation Wadia - hell, I'd probably be one of those people)

I do feel compelled to point out that when it was being made the S7i was a $13K unit; I think the EMM you reference is over $20K, and at that point the Esoteric K-01X/K-03X are likely worthy of consideration, not to mention some of the less expensive dCS units (none of which I've actually heard.)

I never found the S7i lacking in detail per se, my issue is still that few other people seem to get the sound of piano keys right.

It's not good when you put a Redbook CD with piano into your new player feeding your new DAC and you wince at the sound, something I found myself doing with the PS Audio DirectStream last night, even though it's one of the best reviewed DACs out there (Fall 2017 Stereophile Class A+ yet.) :eek:

For all its apparent shortcomings, I swapped back to the S7i and… bliss. :D
 
Last edited:

Bar81

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2017
129
20
98
I've never been particularly impressed with any of the single box dcs or Esoteric gear (although I've heard the latter has become somewhat more musical in the current generation).

Relying on Stereophile to tell you what's good (particularly in digital) has been a waste of time for at least the last 10 years. The only thing the magazine is good for is JA's measurements. To be fair to Stereophile, in my experience, 9/10 of the favorably reviewed pieces in any of Stereophile, TAS, etc. will not live up to the hype.

Back on topic. So now we're shifting from the 861 to the S7i? Let's move those goalposts :)

The S7i is less colored and is all around better in every way than the 861 including a significant jump in detail retrieval and better controlled bass. The S7i was $14k when new and another $4-5k for GNSC statement mod (which massively improves performance). I was comparing that to an XDS1 ($25k) and the EMM unit came out ahead (and the XDS1 continued to later improve in subsequent firmware updates) except for that low end solidity you are focused on that's Wadia's trademark.

I think the S7i GNSC still compares favorably in this day and age for the used price it fetches (if you can find one). There's a reason why Wadia still has plenty of fans to this day - nothing sounds like a Wadia and it has a definite "rightness" to its sound (although how you can pick anything but Algorithm A is beyond me). The S7i GNSC is still the best one box Wadia CDP ever made and for a Wadia fan they might never need to look elsewhere.
 

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
280
193
273
Yes, I have always used the magazines as a starting point to narrow down what to audition but ultimately it’s come down to an in home audition. I had Vivid Audio speakers for over two years before they even got a listen in the mags. That being said, I have found my tastes have always aligned more with Stereophile than TAS.

I suspect I will indeed return the PS Audio gear and keep the Wadia. It’s that “wince” factor on piano that bothers me the most; the Wadia just sounds most like real music.

As an aside, I always thought that if you weren’t going to run algorithm “A” you were best off purchasing another brand altogether.
 

aston456

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
9
0
231
You guys are funny.
Complaining about the lack of details with the Wadias, you apparently prefer algorithm "A" which has a rather early roll-off (~ 17 kHz) in the high frequencies.
That is the reason for lack of details in my opinion.
When I first had the AMR DP 777 for an audition at my home, I was enchanted by the details and open sound of the machine.
And I was almost selling my Wadia for it. Fortunately I switched the algorithm and that was it then.
So I don´t think that using "A" is a valid basis for a comparison.
I was always thinking about buying a S7i but it is often said that it is not a "real" Wadia any more.
And reading this review http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/cd-player-reviews/wadia-s7i/ doesn´t really give me the idea that the S7i is a must-have over the 861 SE or the 27iX.
 

Bar81

Well-Known Member
Mar 24, 2017
129
20
98
You guys are funny.
Complaining about the lack of details with the Wadias, you apparently prefer algorithm "A" which has a rather early roll-off (~ 17 kHz) in the high frequencies.
That is the reason for lack of details in my opinion.
When I first had the AMR DP 777 for an audition at my home, I was enchanted by the details and open sound of the machine.
And I was almost selling my Wadia for it. Fortunately I switched the algorithm and that was it then.
So I don´t think that using "A" is a valid basis for a comparison.
I was always thinking about buying a S7i but it is often said that it is not a "real" Wadia any more.
And reading this review http://www.hifi-advice.com/blog/review/digital-reviews/cd-player-reviews/wadia-s7i/ doesn´t really give me the idea that the S7i is a must-have over the 861 SE or the 27iX.

The fact that you have a Wadia and are using C shows you have no idea what Wadia is about. Anyway, you keep on holding to your delusion that your 861 is even competitive anymore. The world has moved on.
 

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
280
193
273
I never complained about lack of resolution, but I think aston456 is responding to multiple people here.

Regardless, here is the best description of what I just heard a few seconds ago.

On one track I have there is a little wooden "tock" in the background once a measure when the singer starts the chorus.

On the PS Audio DirectStream and Oppo UHD-205, that "tock" sounds like a wood block, at times almost like the "tock" of a clock.

With the Wadia you can hear that it's actually a wooden drumstick on the rim of a drum; you can hear the slight echo of the hit on the rim as it echoes very slightly off the drum head.

Yes, on setting "A." ;)
 

roundhead

Well-Known Member
Oct 31, 2018
42
18
88
Wadia has a legendary history. Never heard a bad word said against them. Has anyone done a comparison of the series 9 against more recent manufacturers’ wares or against the s7i?
 

BillK

Well-Known Member
Aug 25, 2015
280
193
273
It still sounds absolutely wonderful.

That having been said, Fine Sounds dumped all parts following their acquisition and they can't handle anything over 24/96.

But I haven't found anything that sounds as good under mid-five figures new.
 

aston456

Well-Known Member
Oct 11, 2015
9
0
231
In the meantime, which comprises of almost six years now, I tried out a bunch of different DACs, with the result that I stuck to my W27iX.
For everybody thinking about buying one of the old Wadia battleships, you should definitely let it be recapped completely.
And when I say completely, I mean it.
Even the SMD Electrolytic capacitors have to be replaced.
This is especially valid for the W27 with a bunch of voltage regulators in the middle of the pcb which run at very high temperatures (more than 85° C directly at the small heat-sinks) and heat up all parts near them.
If you don´t do this you will never experience the actual performance of the Wadias, no matter what.
And while you´re at it, you should take out the parts directly at the analogue XLR outputs which are intended for reducing the EMI but actually lead to a reduced sound performance.
This is one of the things which GNSC did with their upgrades.
In addition to that I got slits in the top lid of the W27 for the hot air to escape.
My dream still is the BIG Wadia combo 931 & 922 (921). But those still sell for too much.
 

Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
8,679
4,467
963
Greater Boston
The S7i is still a great front end, even today (I was keeping one for a second system but had to sell recently to fund an amp purchase).

I'm not sure the Ayre or the PS Audio represent anything near the state of the art atm. Certainly they have their fans, but for me, for example, the Ayre was good but never great. There are however units that surpassed the overall (depending on what you're looking for) performance of the S7i (even GNSC Statement) years ago (like the EMM Labs XDS1) but even they couldn't establish that foundation that the Wadias get so right - which is what you're describing. It wasn't until the EMM Labs TX2/DA2 that I found a digital front end that surpassed Wadia in all facets including that critical foundation.

Some excerpts from my review of the EMM Labs combo:

...
I've historically been a Wadia fan because their players got the most important thing in music right – drive (in fact, I still have a Wadia S7i GNSC Statement CDP - Wadia's last CDP - that I intend to use in a secondary system once I get the space). Wadia's players have always been unparalleled in my experience in driving the music forward. Up until now, subsequent to the death of Wadia (what exists now has no relation to the original company), I have not heard any digital that has gotten that right since. When I replaced my Wadia 861se with the original XDS1, I sacrificed that drive for the significantly lower coloration, better and more open top end and midrange and the vastly greater resolution of the XDS1. But not having that drive always bothered me, and along with the mid-hall presentation of the XDS1 (I prefer being closer to the stage) and the good but I never felt quite right treble, I was never fully satisfied with that CDP, even in V2 guise.

...
EMM Labs’ new reference digital combo has everything that one could ever want - resolution top to bottom that is generations beyond their single box CDP (which was not a slouch), highs that are smooth and accurate (violin is as smooth as it is in real life while cymbals have just the right amount of bite and definition), unlimited dynamic range and musicality without coloration that I can detect – plus the best aspects of Wadia - drive and solidity in the bass/fully developed foundation to the music.

I have had a Wadia 8 transport/Wadia 12 DAC combo and it did have good drive, compared to the standards at the time, decades ago. Yet the last few years I have had Schiit Yggdrasil DACs (designed by Mike Moffat, formerly Theta Digital) in various incarnations, and unfailingly they have provided the best drive from digital that I have ever heard. My current Yggdrasil LIM (Less Is More) DAC easily competes also with the best drive that I have yet heard from a turntable. It's a veritable rock & roll animal, swings on jazz like hell, and brings out subtleties in momentum as well. It is driven in my system by a Simaudio DT 260 CD transport followed by Mutec reclocker.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing