Who Still Uses A Preamp

Who Uses A Separate Preamplifier vs Integrated Amp/Preamp


  • Total voters
    111

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
I guess that I am still a die hard audiophile who still believes in individual components rather than say an integrated amp with a built in preamp. Several have already asked if we need a separate forum for preamplification. I believe we do so I am putting up a simple poll to see where people are in this.
 

es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
1,577
35
970
Midwest fly over state..
MC500, the solid state version which as a very good phono section.
 

kach22i

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
1,592
210
1,635
Ann Arbor, Michigan
www.kachadoorian.com
what line stage and phono stage are you using

The phono stage is built-in, it's a real old fashion/traditional pre-amp, no remote, tubes and all that jazz. No headphone amp though.

GRAAF WFB ONE

A hot little Italian, complete with Ferrari black paint.

System link:
http://www.martinloganowners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=531
 
Last edited:

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
I still use a preamplifier though many have now switched to calling it a line stage since it doesn't have a phono section. I envision using a preamplfier for the foreseeable future since am dedicated to analog and it helps that the cj GAT (as well as the ART), has about 24 dB of gain. Now most preamplifiers come with gain in the range of 10 dB because one doesn't need all that much with digital playback nowadays.

Now I haven't heard, for whatever the reason (and there's a couple), a line level passive preamp that sounds as good as an "active" preamplifier. Even two parts in the circuit, someone like John Curl would argue, affects the sound and I still hear dynamic and harmonic limitations with the passive approach.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
Hi
I am trying to approach this from a technical perspective. We are dealing with substantial voltage in these times of Line Level sources, why can't the Preamp section be integrated with the power amps? We know how to shield to completely freedom from EM. We can build a power supply or even separate power supplies for amp and preamp sections ... We do away with the cable , the less components the better the results should be don't you think? I think the time for integrated is now. If I were a manufacturer however I will likely claim the contrary...

Frantz
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Hi
I am trying to approach this from a technical perspective. We are dealing with substantial voltage in these times of Line Level sources, why can't the Preamp section be integrated with the power amps? We know how to shield to completely freedom from EM. We can build a power supply or even separate power supplies for amp and preamp sections ... We do away with the cable , the less components the better the results should be don't you think? I think the time for integrated is now. If I were a manufacturer however I will likely claim the contrary...

Frantz

it's almost as if the wheel came full circle. Back in the 60's most everything was integrated until the 70's when individual components were made. Now we want integration. Go figure :confused:
 

MylesBAstor

Well-Known Member
Apr 20, 2010
11,238
81
1,725
New York City
Hi
I am trying to approach this from a technical perspective. We are dealing with substantial voltage in these times of Line Level sources, why can't the Preamp section be integrated with the power amps? We know how to shield to completely freedom from EM. We can build a power supply or even separate power supplies for amp and preamp sections ... We do away with the cable , the less components the better the results should be don't you think? I think the time for integrated is now. If I were a manufacturer however I will likely claim the contrary...
cd
Frantz

Frantz: I often wondered if there's a tradeoff between using a separate DAC and transport vs. an all in one, all out unit. Could one get better sound without having to use a digital cable and all its associated issue.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
Frantz: I often wondered if there's a tradeoff between using a separate DAC and transport vs. an all in one, all out unit. Could one get better sound without having to use a digital cable and all its associated issue.


I can answer that in reference to one specific piece of equipment. This was that one piece of gear you wish you never sold.... the Krell KPS25sc. One of the most advanced components I have ever owned. Performed flawlessly with superior sound
 

Bigfish8

New Member
Apr 20, 2010
40
0
0
Raleigh, NC
I am using a Mapletree Line 2A-SE with Tung-Sol 6SN7 Round Plates and a Mullard 6X5 Rectifier. I could not be without a preamp in my system as I require HT Bypass.

Ken
 

audioguy

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
2,794
73
1,635
Near Atlanta, GA but not too near!
I, too, use a separate preamp. An integrated preamp and amp would not work as well since I keep my equipment in another room and run long balanced interconnects to my mono amps. I would not want to run speaker wire at that length.

I also am waiting before I spend big bucks on a SSP until such time as things settle down a bit (like waiting for HDMI 9.6 !!) and, like Miles and others, have a large analog library. I can use a much less expensive SSP for home theater (that, by the way, is good enough) but still get great 2 channel sound from my preamp. (I would never use my current SSP as an analog preamp and am not prepared to spend $20,000 for an SSP that lacks the kind of digital room correction I want).
 

amirm

Banned
Apr 2, 2010
15,813
38
0
Seattle, WA
I am not sure how to answer the poll. I think the question is to ask is who uses a processor and (hence no pre-amp) and who uses (stereo) pre-amp/power-amp. My use of stereo pre-amp is outside of my main theater where I used it predominantly as volume control past DACs being fed from digital sources. PC volume controls have traditionally been poor performers so you are better off setting that level to max, and then controlling it outboard. In my theater, I use the processor. In all cases, I use separate amplification.

What do you all do? Have complete parallel setups for analog/LP listening and theater? Or is the latter not in play?
 

Gregadd

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
10,560
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Metro DC
it's almost as if the wheel came full circle. Back in the 60's most everything was integrated until the 70's when individual components were made. Now we want integration. Go figure :confused:
Blame Audio Research. The SP 3 was so good it changed how we looked at things. With a digital system something like the ASR Emitter is an intriguing option.
 

FrantzM

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
6,455
29
405
I don't really see how an integrated would make things real different. An HT bypass is simple technically with an integrated, jnow the inpout is straigh to the amps, a relay could accomplished this wonderfully.
I sincerely believe that we have become acustomed to separates becuse back in the days they tended to provide better performance, especially with the relatively complex Phono section which usually is more complicated thanlevel becuse of the small voltages involved with Phono Cartridges and also lest we forget earlier preamps had also equalization for tape sources, especially equalization for tape heads. I admit however that if one were to use LP sources a preamp miht become useful, the level control of the integrated would then simply bypassed just like inthe case of an HT...
I will also add that in my experience the Phono Stage from Burmester shone against most stand alone I have cared to compare it to , so making a small plug-able phono-stage is indeed eminently possible.
I apologize if it seems , I am taking a contrary position. I sincerely think that the High End Audio world needs to shake itself up and start thinking about innovation. We are miring ourselves in a the- next New is really very old stuff kind of mentality and this is not advancing our sector in any way. That will be the subject of another post...

Frantz
 

mep

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
9,481
17
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Well, count me in as one who uses a separate preamp and power amp. Somehow I was under the impression that most "serious" audiophiles are using separate preamps and poweramps. My home theater rig is in a separate room from my 2 channel stereo. I listen primarily to LPs and tapes and I need a preamp that has a phono section. Also, an integrated amp would have to be very large to incorporate a healthy power supply for the preamp and poweramp sections. I have no intentions of switching over to an integrated amp. Somehow I doubt I would find an integrated amp that would have a tube phono section like my Counterpoint SA-5.1 and a poweramp like my Jadis Defy 7 MKII.
Mark
 

kach22i

WBF Founding Member
Apr 21, 2010
1,592
210
1,635
Ann Arbor, Michigan
www.kachadoorian.com
Somehow I doubt I would find an integrated amp that would have a tube phono section like my Counterpoint SA-5.1 and a poweramp like my Jadis Defy 7 MKII.
Mark
You would end up with another box and set of interconnects for the outboard phono.

And perhaps another box for a headphone amp.

And another box for giving you another set of outs or some other hidden hi-end tax.

Kind of makes you want to buy an old receiver form the 1970's.:cool:
 

Bigfish8

New Member
Apr 20, 2010
40
0
0
Raleigh, NC
Kind of makes you want to buy an old receiver form the 1970's.

I happen to own a vintage Yahama CR-2040 Receiver made in 1978. One hundred twenty watts made into one beast of a receiver and it is still playing strong today!

Ken
 

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