Will iTunes skip right passed redbook to 24 bit HiRez!! ??

ted_b · Feb 22, 2011

This CNN rumor is getting around pretty quickly. As I stated in my own AC HiRez Music forum, this would be a HUGE marketing gain for HiRez, as iTunes is now a leading music distribution channel, but it's like going from VHS to 1080p, completely skipping the S-VHS, DVD and 1080i steps.

Weird but would be nice.....skeptical.

http://www.macrumors.com/2011/02/22...-to-offer-24-bit-music-files-in-itunes-store/

rblnr · Feb 22, 2011

This would be great, and what's interesting is that it's partially driven by the growing use of better quality headphones.

ack · Feb 22, 2011

This is kind of an old rumor... it's been posted here before that iTunes 11 is going hi rez.

JackD201 · Feb 22, 2011

rblnr said:
This would be great, and what's interesting is that it's partially driven by the growing use of better quality headphones.

I've been seeing more and more kids with supra and circum-aurals out and about. It's almost like a fashion statement. Thank you NBA stars!

Looks like buds are out. IEMs are getting better and better too, even the ones available from the Mac stores namely the lower end Shures', Klipsch's and Etymotic's.

ted_b · Feb 22, 2011

ack said:
This is kind of an old rumor... it's been posted here before that iTunes 11 is going hi rez.

We're not talking iTunes 11, we're talking about the iTunes store possibly selling real lossless music. I asked about that "itunes 11" comment earlier in my WBF postings but got that iTunes (the player) will simply support hirez....which I questioned cuz it does now!! If you've seen this CNN report before (mine's dated Feb 22) then please fill us in on what you know. Thx
Ted

rblnr · Feb 22, 2011

AFAIK, the old rumor had to do w/iTunes autoswitching sampling rates so you don't have to use the midi interface and do it manually. This is about hirez content, not functionality.

rblnr · Feb 22, 2011

JackD201 said:
I've been seeing more and more kids with supra and circum-aurals out and about. It's almost like a fashion statement. Thank you NBA stars!

Looks like buds are out. IEMs are getting better and better too, even the ones available from the Mac stores namely the lower end Shures', Klipsch's and Etymotic's.

Yes, I see it w/the 'kids' I work with, buying better and better headphones. The Shure's and Etymotics (haven't tried the Kiipsch's) are all night 'n day vs. buds.

vinylphilemag · Feb 22, 2011

iTunes support hi res would be great. It would be really nice if Apple added FLAC support to iTunes too...

ted_b · Feb 22, 2011

vinylphilemag said:
iTunes support hi res would be great. It would be really nice if Apple added FLAC support to iTunes too...

To clarify and reiterate:
iTunes TODAY supports hirez sample rates. I play anything that my DAC can support, up to 32/384k in the case of the M2tech Young DAC....IOW, whatever the DAC's driver tells audio midi, then iTunes will store and play it (or PM, Amarra, or anything using iTunes catalog, etc). So this latest rumor is not about format support or hirez sample rate compatibility. This thread is really about the either-recent-or-revitalized rumor that the iTunes store may be soon selling something other than lossy downloads, and in this case all the way up to 24 bit audiophile quality.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 22, 2011

It wouldn't come as a huge surprise. When they went from 128kbps to 256, it wasn't because their definitively non-audiophile market was demanding it, or asking for it, or even because they would know the difference. They made the change just because they could; because bandwidth and iPod memory allowed it. This one, however, would be very different. Feasibility would require some kind of compression into a packet that could be downloaded very quickly, then opened up into a full hi-rez file on your computer. And hi-rez, true hi-rez, would require BIG HD space. Lossless as a standard with hi-rez as an option would take some tricks, but wouldn't be a huge shock.

Tim

ack · Feb 22, 2011

ted_b said:
We're not talking iTunes 11, we're talking about the iTunes store possibly selling real lossless music.

Of course you were not, but why would iTunes 11 support hi rez? So we can play hi rez downloaded from elsewhere?

amirm · Feb 22, 2011

ack said:
Of course you were not, but why would iTunes 11 support hi rez? So we can play hi rez downloaded from elsewhere?

If I am not mistaken, iTunes is built on top of Quicktime (library) which has always had such support. Quicktime has been used by pro audio tools for years and hence that suppport.

ted_b · Feb 22, 2011

ack said:
Of course you were not, but why would iTunes 11 support hi rez? So we can play hi rez downloaded from elsewhere?

?? You and I are not connecting. Saying iTunes 11 will support hirez is like saying iTunes 11 will support album art. It already does! Fact: iTunes 10, 9, 8 and maybe even 7 has most certainly supported HiRez (defined as anything over 16.44, which mainly means stuff like 24/48, 24/88.2, 24/96, 24/176.4 and 24/192). As I've stated a number of times, iTunes easily supports my prototype super hirez (made that up

) M2tech Young DAC's 32/384 sample rates. So please quit telling folks that it won't be until iTunes 11 that hirez is supported. This thread is about the iTunes store and the rumored huge sea change on Apple's store policy that up till now has been woefully lossy. But make no mistake, we don't need to wait till "iTunes 11" to support hirez, it does it NOW and for quite some time before.

ack · Feb 22, 2011

So I ask again - why would iTunes the software [pick the applicable version] support hi rez if we were not to eventually download such material from iTunes the store? For some of us, the inference was made long ago. Amir seems to indicate that it's the underlying library that's the driving factor. Fair enough.

amirm · Feb 22, 2011

I thought I answered that

. So maybe I explain more. iTunes is a front-end to a media engine. iTunes provides library management and nice graphical interface. When it wants to play something, it hands it to lower level routines to manage it. Those low-level routines, Quicktime, have had that capability due to being the main library used on the Mac to build any audio application including professional editing applications. iTunes simply hands the file over to Quicktime if it can play it, it will play. It is not attempting to lower the level of capability in Quicktime. You can see more information in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes

iTunes is an application that allows the user to purchase and manage audio and video on a personal computer, acting as a front end for Apple's QuickTime media player....
"iTunes can also play any audio files that QuickTime can play."

In other words, the engine in itunes is Quicktime. ITunes is the body of the car.

So there really has been no inference of high-res downloads due to above factor.

rbbert · Feb 22, 2011

I'm willing to bet most (or all?) of the downloads, assuming they actually happen, will be 24/44.1, since that appears to be how popular music is currently recorded/mastered. So higher res than CD or current MP3/AAC, but not exactly what members here are likely to consider true "hi-res".

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 22, 2011

amirm said:
I thought I answered that . So maybe I explain more. iTunes is a front-end to a media engine. iTunes provides library management and nice graphical interface. When it wants to play something, it hands it to lower level routines to manage it. Those low-level routines, Quicktime, have had that capability due to being the main library used on the Mac to build any audio application including professional editing applications. iTunes simply hands the file over to Quicktime if it can play it, it will play. It is not attempting to lower the level of capability in Quicktime. You can see more information in wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ITunes

iTunes is an application that allows the user to purchase and manage audio and video on a personal computer, acting as a front end for Apple's QuickTime media player....
"iTunes can also play any audio files that QuickTime can play."

In other words, the engine in itunes is Quicktime. ITunes is the body of the car.

So there really has been no inference of high-res downloads due to above factor.

There is no doubt you know this stuff better than I, Amir, but I thought the underlying OSX audio engine was Core Audio, and Quicktime was another high-level interface app?

Tim

ted_b · Feb 22, 2011

ack said:
So I ask again - why would iTunes the software [pick the applicable version] support hi rez if we were not to eventually download such material from iTunes the store? For some of us, the inference was made long ago. Amir seems to indicate that it's the underlying library that's the driving factor. Fair enough.

Ack, you're kidding, right? You began this whole thing with the contention that iTunes 11 will be the first to support hirez.

amirm · Feb 22, 2011

Phelonious Ponk said:
There is no doubt you know this stuff better than I, Amir, but I thought the underlying OSX audio engine was Core Audio, and Quicktime was another high-level interface app?

Tim

Actually, I don't claim to be an expert in all things Mac.

That said, Quicktime is both a media player (which doesn't get much use these days other than playing streamed QT files) and a media library. The latter is the engine that is used to build for example an audio or video editing application. And the same one iTunes uses. My assumption is that Quicktime library relies on core audio services to actually output the audio samples.

Phelonious Ponk · Feb 23, 2011

amirm said:
Actually, I don't claim to be an expert in all things Mac. That said, Quicktime is both a media player (which doesn't get much use these days other than playing streamed QT files) and a media library. The latter is the engine that is used to build for example an audio or video editing application. And the same one iTunes uses. My assumption is that Quicktime library relies on core audio services to actually output the audio samples.

See? You do know more about this than I do. I love it when I'm right.

Tim

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