Bi-wires or Shotgun with Jumpers

Kal Rubinson · Feb 17, 2011

Yes, I mean scientifically. Note that in my previous post I did allow for the audibility (and scientific basis) of differences among cables but cables are different from amplifiers or DACs in that, for the most part, they are single component devices and not composed of a myriad of varying components utilized in different circuit configurations. Most amps and DACs do not measure identically (no surprise), so it is easy to accept that they could sound different.

But, there is a very simple paradigm here. If one chooses any competently-constructed cable of sufficient gauge, what is the measurable difference between using it alone and using a pair as bi-wired (aside from the increase in cable thickness)? There have been theoretical efforts which suggest differences too small to be audible but, afaik, no measurements which demonstrate a difference sufficient to be audible.

As I said, don't you think that the cable industry would be plastering this proof all over if they had it?

DaveyF · Feb 17, 2011

Kal, I agree with you that the cable industry would be proclaiming loudly if they had scientific proof of the reason behind the phenomenon. OTOH, my impression from your posts is that you do NOT believe that a) bi-wiring makes any difference and b) that dual runs of cable ( what I call true bi-wiring) per channel also makes any difference. Have you not heard a difference in the reproduction yourself with this set-up?

If not, well so be it. If so, then you must conclude that something is occurring that has perhaps not been scientifically proven as yet.( or your ears are deceiving you

)

Kal Rubinson · Feb 17, 2011

DaveyF said:
Kal, I agree with you that the cable industry would be proclaiming loudly if they had scientific proof of the reason behind the phenomenon. OTOH, my impression from your posts is that you do NOT believe that a) bi-wiring makes any difference and b) that dual runs of cable ( what I call true bi-wiring) per channel also makes any difference. Have you not heard a difference in the reproduction yourself with this set-up? If not, well so be it. If so, then you must conclude that something is occurring that has perhaps not been scientifically proven as yet.( or your ears are deceiving you)

I will come clean. I have been using bi-wired connections to my front 3 speakers in the NYC system for several years now. However, that is not because I have ever heard a difference between bi-wiring and single-wire. I implemented this at the strong recommendation of the cable manufacturer/supplier (AudioQuest) and, since I failed to hear an improvement or a deterioration compared to single-wire, they stayed. I do not use bi-wiring with the other speakers or any in my CT system.

Sure, I do have a bias that is based on (1) the fact I have not personally been able to discern a difference and (2) the lack of a measured/scientific demonstration of a difference.

But anything's possible. Recently, I heard a dealer's demo setup and the cable manufacturer swapped one set of his interconnects (preamp-to-amp) with another model of his interconnects. The difference in this one-time change-over was notable. So, despite my biases, I am open to hearing and learning more.

Randy Bessinger · Feb 17, 2011

Kal Rubinson said:
I will come clean. I have been using bi-wired connections to my front 3 speakers in the NYC system for several years now. However, that is not because I have ever heard a difference between bi-wiring and single-wire. I implemented this at the strong recommendation of the cable manufacturer/supplier (AudioQuest) and, since I failed to hear an improvement or a deterioration compared to single-wire, they stayed. I do not use bi-wiring with the other speakers or any in my CT system.

Sure, I do have a bias that is based on (1) the fact I have not personally been able to discern a difference and (2) the lack of a measured/scientific demonstration of a difference.

But anything's possible. Recently, I heard a dealer's demo setup and the cable manufacturer swapped one set of his interconnects (preamp-to-amp) with another model of his interconnects. The difference in this one-time change-over was notable. So, despite my biases, I am open to hearing and learning more.

It wasn't the "Amazing Randi" that did the switch was it?

Kal Rubinson · Feb 17, 2011

Nope. It was two other guys and I watched them do it. ;-)

Jay_S · Feb 17, 2011

bertdw said:
With the high-current signal (Bass) separated from the low-current signal (Treble) this small signal modulation was eliminated as long as the cables were separated by at least an inch or two. (To keep the treble cable out of the field surrounding the bass cable.)"

At the power amp terminal there is usually no cable separation. There is definitely no separation within the amp. Wouldn't there be small signal modulation at these points as well?

vinylphilemag · Feb 17, 2011

Jay_S said:
At the power amp terminal there is usually no cable separation. There is definitely no separation within the amp. Wouldn't there be small signal modulation at these points as well?

Not necessarily, or at least, not very much. Two cables are required for induction to occur.

bertdw · Feb 18, 2011

Jay_S said:
At the power amp terminal there is usually no cable separation. There is definitely no separation within the amp. Wouldn't there be small signal modulation at these points as well?

I don't think it would be called modulation at that point, since it's one signal. After the signal divides in the two cables, the voltage would be the same in both cables, but not the current (because of the crossover network in the speaker.) It's the current that creates the magnetic field in the cable which, Vandersteen hypothesizes, causes modulation.

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Bi-wires or Shotgun with Jumpers

Kal Rubinson

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