Now what?

MidFi13 · Jul 4, 2018

A year long upgrade to Schiit Saga, Schiit Vidar, Silverline Preludes matched with a fabulous Volkswoofer leaves just the Marantz CD6004 as a target. That CD has been flawless in operation - built like a tank! But I still feel I am missing some crispness, detail, and sparkle in upper mid range and treble regions. Some audiophile reviews mention this tendency - a low end emphasis with a CD6004. I agree. My system sounds heavier at the bottom than I prefer. With some recording I would even call it muffled.

Reading that the source is the key, would anyone have a CD player or DVD/CD player upgrade recommendation that might improve those upper regions?

As an addendum, if certain interconnects/cables might add the upper end benefits I seek, I would certainly keep the Marantz and try specific, different hookups.

JackD201 · Jul 4, 2018

Hegel Mojican comes immediately to mind

MidFi13 · Jul 4, 2018

Nice suggestion. I had not even heard the name before. But at 5K it doubles the cost of my entire system including cables

. I will read about it and drool, yet there is just no chance for this retiree making peanuts in golf course maintenance to pop for that particular player.

JackD201 · Jul 4, 2018

Ooops! My bad. I haven't seen any affordable new CD players come out in the last few years now that I think about it. The name of the Mojican according to audio urban legend is that the folks at Hegel named it so because it was "The Last of....".

How about Cambridge? They were pretty crisp.

MidFi13 · Jul 4, 2018

That's fine. I listed my components so any members would get a sense about where I am at. Schiit is a modest line that outperforms its price, in my opinion. I got a fabulous deal on those used Silverline Preludes. The M&K Volkswoofer is a beauty at the price I paid.

Interesting though, I found a link to a forum and it has a ton of possibilities: https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/what-is-the-best-analog-sounding-cd-player-2000. Kind of hilarious that there is absolutely no consensus for that thread. One link within the responses that I clicked on and read, so far, is for the Doge 6 vacuum tube CD player. Looks intriguing... Paul C

Empirical Audio · Jul 4, 2018

If you are using the CD player as a transport and one of these DAC's, then the obvious thing is to reduce jitter. The best way to do this is adding a Synchro-Mesh reclocker between the transport and DAC and use a high-end S/PDIF coax cable like my $499 reference BNC cable with RCA adapters. The Synchro-Mesh now delivers 7psec of jitter to any DAC:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.0

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh

$699 or $799 depending on options for the SM. 30-day money-back, less shipping on both.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Brucemck2 · Jul 4, 2018

Empirical Audio said:
If you are using the CD player as a transport and one of these DAC's, then the obvious thing is to reduce jitter. The best way to do this is adding a Synchro-Mesh reclocker between the transport and DAC and use a high-end S/PDIF coax cable like my $499 reference BNC cable with RCA adapters. The Synchro-Mesh now delivers 7psec of jitter to any DAC:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.0

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh

$699 or $799 depending on options for the SM. 30-day money-back, less shipping on both.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

The SynchroMesh works great for two channel music.

MidFi13 · Jul 4, 2018

Empirical Audio said:
If you are using the CD player as a transport and one of these DAC's, then the obvious thing is to reduce jitter. The best way to do this is adding a Synchro-Mesh reclocker between the transport and DAC and use a high-end S/PDIF coax cable like my $499 reference BNC cable with RCA adapters. The Synchro-Mesh now delivers 7psec of jitter to any DAC:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=157348.0

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/products/synchro-mesh

$699 or $799 depending on options for the SM. 30-day money-back, less shipping on both.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

That is not the configuration of my current system. A Marantz CD6004 has built in DAC - Cirus Logic CS4398. No external DAC. And why not find a CD player with proper clocking in the first place so I don't need to keep adding these extra toys to the signal path?

Empirical Audio · Jul 4, 2018

MidFi13 said:
That is not the configuration of my current system. A Marantz CD6004 has built in DAC - Cirus Logic CS4398. No external DAC. And why not find a CD player with proper clocking in the first place so I don't need to keep adding these extra toys to the signal path?

Good luck with that!! I modded many different CD players for 10 years, improving their clocks and power subsystem. Not even remotely close to 7psec of jitter, even after mods.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

MidFi13 · Jul 4, 2018

Empirical is a nice site. Glad to learn about it. Seems to me the Marantz CD6004 still has to go for this to work because it has that built in DAC. Likely external DACs are much better. The amount I have invested (not counting CDs themselves) in stereo components plus connectors is $4,115. Your improvements come in just under $1200 and I would still need a good DAC and transport. Cannot see it happening as a senior citizen. My prime earning years are in the rear view mirror, not through a windshield.

JackD201 · Jul 4, 2018

Seeing as nobody seems to be making stand alone CD players for little dosh these days, how about this? Shiit DAC + Shiit RCA + Digital COAX cable? That would come in between $150 and $450 depending on which DAC you choose. Just keep the Marantz and use it as your transport. I think this is a lower risk route than trying your luck on budget BluRay players.

MidFi13 · Jul 5, 2018

Now I am becoming confused. There is no way to bypass the DAC inside the Marantz without a physical modification to wiring - running it in straightwire so to speak. I am no DIY electronic modifier, so that's a professional mod. Right now what comes out of the Marantz is already converted by the inboard DAC. There are no bypass or straightwire options on the Marantz. What benefit do I get from the external Schiit DAC under those circumstances? Isn't the Schiit DAC getting a problematic input source, unclean digital data?

If that is not the case, the Schiit DAC is a superb option. But I just don't get it.

JackD201 · Jul 5, 2018

Hi

Actually you can go straight out of the Marantz 6004 as a transport via the digital outputs in the back of your unit. You'll have two choices, coaxial or optical. The first will use a 75ohm RCA cable and the second a Toslink cable. Either can be had for very little. In a pinch a yellow video cable can be used for the Coaxial. That then goes into the corresponding DAC input. Next take the cables that used to come out of the Marantz (L - out and R-out) into your preamp and connect that to the output (L -out and R - out) of the DAC. The DAC now sends the signal that used to come from your Marantz to your preamp input.

That's it. Done

Best regards,

A certified Golf nut

MidFi13 · Jul 5, 2018

JackD201 said:
Hi

Actually you can go straight out of the Marantz 6004 as a transport via the digital outputs in the back of your unit. You'll have two choices, coaxial or optical. The first will use a 75ohm RCA cable and the second a Toslink cable. Either can be had for very little. In a pinch a yellow video cable can be used for the Coaxial. That then goes into the corresponding DAC input. Next take the cables that used to come out of the Marantz (L - out and R-out) into your preamp and connect that to the output (L -out and R - out) of the DAC. The DAC now sends the signal that used to come from your Marantz to your preamp input.

That's it. Done

Best regards,

A certified Golf nut

The only reason I could go to Great Britain to play golf was a voucher for a small fortune I got for giving up a seat around a holiday on a domestic flight. The course in the photo was amazing because sheep grazed all over the place and hot wire surrounded greens. Way too cool.

Wow and yes. Certainly that works!. I have a fiber optic (not great) cable. I did read somewhere that coaxial is the better option. Might look further into it. So, what is the best you could do to help a senior on your wonderful recommended products? You can get back to me one way or another at ajslives2015@gmail.com. Paul C

JackD201 · Jul 5, 2018

Just go get the Stuff from Schiit the same place you got the others.

Enjoy Paul!

Jack

Empirical Audio · Jul 5, 2018

MidFi13 said:
The only reason I could go to Great Britain to play golf was a voucher for a small fortune I got for giving up a seat around a holiday on a domestic flight. The course in the photo was amazing because sheep grazed all over the place and hot wire surrounded greens. Way too cool.

Wow and yes. Certainly that works!. I have a fiber optic (not great) cable. I did read somewhere that coaxial is the better option. Might look further into it. So, what is the best you could do to help a senior on your wonderful recommended products? You can get back to me one way or another at ajslives2015@gmail.com. Paul C

Okay, now that you get it: the real price for a good reclocker like the Sychro-Mesh is $699 and the BNC coax cable is $279. This is a great start to excellent audio quality. The transport is not that important and the DAC is less important than the source digital stream. What you must understand is: that with digital audio, jitter is everything.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Legolas · Jul 5, 2018

MidFi13 said:
A year long upgrade to Schiit Saga, Schiit Vidar, Silverline Preludes matched with a fabulous Volkswoofer leaves just the Marantz CD6004 as a target. That CD has been flawless in operation - built like a tank! But I still feel I am missing some crispness, detail, and sparkle in upper mid range and treble regions. Some audiophile reviews mention this tendency - a low end emphasis with a CD6004. I agree. My system sounds heavier at the bottom than I prefer. With some recording I would even call it muffled.

Reading that the source is the key, would anyone have a CD player or DVD/CD player upgrade recommendation that might improve those upper regions?

As an addendum, if certain interconnects/cables might add the upper end benefits I seek, I would certainly keep the Marantz and try specific, different hookups.

This is EASY. Search out a used Naim CD555 best combo I have heard to date and you can find them for about your budget (I hope). And they are fully serviceable going forward. Lots of creamy mids, treble detail and big dynamics. Then consider silver interconnects as the last item on that list.

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