proximity effect of speaker magnets to amp transformers?

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
I sold my Lamm ML3's and this morning I was starting the packing process, first carefully putting the tubes in the correct boxes (lots of tubes). then moving the amplifier chassis out from near the speakers. yesterday I had returned the VAC Statement 450's to my friend as he has a few interested buyers.

the big 200+ pound VAC's + the 2 chassis (each side) ML3's had been on either side of my MM7's. unplugged and turned off.

so no more tube amps or their transformers near my speakers.

i had the same digital Beethoven file playing before and after i moved my Lamm amp chassis this morning, and there was a very noticeable and significant improvement in the liveliness and inner tonal glow and energy projection of the music after those amp chassis left the proximity of my speakers.

i had had a couple visitors mention that might happen and so after i thought about it, it's not a complete surprise......but still i had not had a thought to expect it. and it was more dramatic than i would have expected.

YMMV and i could be just imagining things. and i doubt it has anything to do with tubes or solid state. just how magnets in speakers (and maybe crossover components) might be effected.

And.....it could even be a proximity issue with the dart monos too.
 
Last edited:

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
My bet would be it is more likely from the removal of temporal smearing from the reflections off the chassis surfaces interfering with the direct output of the speakers. Then again, you know what they say, ask a guy a question and he's likely to frame an answer around which discipline he knows best. LOL
 

elcorso

VIP/Donor
Nov 19, 2013
87
0
238
Rainforest
I sold my Lamm ML3's and this morning I was starting the packing process, first carefully putting the tubes in the correct boxes (lots of tubes). then moving the amplifier chassis out from near the speakers. yesterday I had returned the VAC Statement 450's to my friend as he has a few interested buyers.

the big 200+ pound VAC's + the 2 chassis (each side) ML3's had been on either side of my MM7's. unplugged and turned off.

so no more tube amps or their transformers near my speakers.

i had the same digital Beethoven file playing before and after i moved my Lamm amp chassis this morning, and there was a very noticeable and significant improvement in the liveliness and inner tonal glow and energy projection of the music after those amp chassis left the proximity of my speakers.

i had had a couple visitors mention that might happen and so after i thought about it, it's not a complete surprise......but still i had not had a thought to expect it. and it was more dramatic than i would have expected.

YMMV and i could be just imagining things. and i doubt it has anything to do with tubes or solid state. just how magnets in speakers (and maybe crossover components) might be effected.

And.....it could even be a proximity issue with the dart monos too.

How far were the amplifiers from the speakers? I believe they suggest a minimum distance of 3 feet between speakers and amplifiers.

I have had bad experiences regarding the magnets of the speakers generating distortion on electronic equipment very close to them. The warning is on the user manual of some speakers.

The same with unused speakers disconnected and with large magnets in the listening room, those generates RF when the speaker drivers are excited by the music that comes from of the speakers in use. As someone suggested and I did, to avoid this, you must short the speakers terminals of the unused ones.

Roch
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
My bet would be it is more likely from the removal of temporal smearing from the reflections off the chassis surfaces interfering with the direct output of the speakers. Then again, you know what they say, ask a guy a question and he's likely to frame an answer around which discipline he knows best. LOL

why not? could be acoustic.

as all the amp chassis were behind the plane of the drivers, and no more than 15" off the floor, and similarly reflective as the hardwood floor...….if anything there were diffusive compared to the open floor. i guess i could find some metal boxes with similar mass (but without transformers) and place them in similar spots and listen.

this is more one of those 'keep it in mind as a possible thing to watch for'.....than any certainty.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
How far were the amplifiers from the speakers? I believe they suggest a minimum distance of 3 feet between speakers and amplifiers.......

Roch

the ML3 main chassis about 12" from the passive main towers of the MM7's, the ML3 power supply about 5 feet. the VAC's were 6 inches from the bass towers and 3 feet from the passive main towers.

none were switched on or even plugged in.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Simpler experiment Mike. How about toeing the Big Darts in, out and straight forward? ;)
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
My bet would be it is more likely from the removal of temporal smearing from the reflections off the chassis surfaces interfering with the direct output of the speakers. Then again, you know what they say, ask a guy a question and he's likely to frame an answer around which discipline he knows best. LOL

I totally agree

I had the same issue with my subs behind my speakers and when they were removed there was a big jump in what I was hearing.ing to do with magnets and drives I really don't think it has anything to do with magnets or drivers
 

GMKF

VIP/Donor
Aug 15, 2017
432
86
135
Munich
I sold my Lamm ML3's and this morning I was starting the packing process, first carefully putting the tubes in the correct boxes (lots of tubes). then moving the amplifier chassis out from near the speakers. yesterday I had returned the VAC Statement 450's to my friend as he has a few interested buyers.

the big 200+ pound VAC's + the 2 chassis (each side) ML3's had been on either side of my MM7's. unplugged and turned off.

so no more tube amps or their transformers near my speakers.

i had the same digital Beethoven file playing before and after i moved my Lamm amp chassis this morning, and there was a very noticeable and significant improvement in the liveliness and inner tonal glow and energy projection of the music after those amp chassis left the proximity of my speakers.

i had had a couple visitors mention that might happen and so after i thought about it, it's not a complete surprise......but still i had not had a thought to expect it. and it was more dramatic than i would have expected.

YMMV and i could be just imagining things. and i doubt it has anything to do with tubes or solid state. just how magnets in speakers (and maybe crossover components) might be effected.

And.....it could even be a proximity issue with the dart monos too.

Very interesting. I think the crossover in the MM7 is well shielded. I can't imagine such "tiny" transformers (with shielding) having such an effect.

The difference may just be acoustical as JackD suggested.
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
The "none plugged in" strengthens my guess. Hard to imagine having what is now tantamount to big heaps of metal affecting the output because now the only thing that "might" be affected is the fixed magnet strength of the drivers. Considering the heavy lifting is the electro-mechanical aspect of a driver in operation.....
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
Simpler experiment Mike. How about toeing the Big Darts in, out and straight forward? ;)

so we've now made this about the darts?

in the past I've placed absorption on the darts and could not hear any effect. they sit in the middle behind the front plane of the drivers. right now the darts are sitting on the Taiko Tana active platform which took three people to get exactly aligned with the 160 pound mono blocks.

so the benefit of rotating the darts is remote, as well as the challenge to do it considerable.

and maybe you have completely forgotten that it's now much better with just the darts.
 
Last edited:

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
I totally agree

I had the same issue with my subs behind my speakers and when they were removed there was a big jump in what I was hearing.ing to do with magnets and drives I really don't think it has anyth

multiple unconnected 18" drivers sitting near your speakers absorbing bass in an unpredictable way is a whole different thing than amplifier mono blocks sitting between and 5 feet from your speakers. one is not relevant to the other.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
My bet would be it is more likely from the removal of temporal smearing from the reflections off the chassis surfaces interfering with the direct output of the speakers. Then again, you know what they say, ask a guy a question and he's likely to frame an answer around which discipline he knows best. LOL

Agreed, physical presence of large and even small objects in the vicinity of speakers will affect dispersion and more.

david
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
why not? could be acoustic.

as all the amp chassis were behind the plane of the drivers, and no more than 15" off the floor, and similarly reflective as the hardwood floor...….if anything there were diffusive compared to the open floor. i guess i could find some metal boxes with similar mass (but without transformers) and place them in similar spots and listen.

this is more one of those 'keep it in mind as a possible thing to watch for'.....than any certainty.

Lay a bowl with bunch of quarters on the floor and listen, you'll hear a difference the same as you would if it anything else like a small piece of carpet.

david
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
I totally agree

I had the same issue with my subs behind my speakers and when they were removed there was a big jump in what I was hearing.ing to do with magnets and drives I really don't think it has anyth


Subs act as bass traps, tuned to the frequency due to the compliance of the speaker unit and air volume - their presence should very well perceptible.
 

Steve Williams

Site Founder, Site Owner, Administrator
multiple unconnected 18" drivers sitting near your speakers absorbing bass in an unpredictable way is a whole different thing than amplifier mono blocks sitting between and 5 feet from your speakers. one is not relevant to the other.

agreed Mike
however I agree with Jack

Try what David said and put a bowl of quarters on the floor in the room near your speakers and then remove them

I don't believe for one moment Jack was making anything about the Dartz except to suggest that they too lie in the proximity of your speakers and he merely suggested listening with them pointed in different directions
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
so we've now made this about the darts?

in the past I've placed absorption on the darts and could not hear any effect. they sit in the middle behind the front plane of the drivers. right now the darts are sitting on the Taiko Tana active platform which took three people to get exactly aligned with the 160 pound mono blocks.

so the benefit of rotating the darts is remote, as well as the challenge to do it considerable.

and maybe you have completely forgotten that it's now much better with just the darts.

Its about the Darts only because they're the only ones left.
 

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,522
10,688
3,515
USA
This is an interesting thread. It has me thinking about ways to de-clutter the space near my speakers, but as I have a non-dedicated and rather small room, it is not so simple. Mike, if you do any additional experimenting with your amp positions, let us know if you hear any differences. I can understand not wanting to make the considerable effort.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,471
11,367
4,410
This is an interesting thread. It has me thinking about ways to de-clutter the space near my speakers, but as I have a non-dedicated and rather small room, it is not so simple. Mike, if you do any additional experimenting with your amp positions, let us know if you hear any differences. I can understand not wanting to make the considerable effort.

now the darts are where they always were in the past (never moved them). and where many/most of us would have our amplifiers; centered between the speakers and just behind the front plane of the speakers.. it's where most amps were designed to go. which does not make them impervious to circuit/speaker proximity issues, or acoustical influences.

obviously I started this thread with a different thought than this one, about how moving 'unplugged' amps with 'unusually large' transformers away from right next to a speaker improved my sound. now the thread has morphed into how normally positioned amps somehow might affect acoustic performance. it's not a question i'm asking.
 

EuroDriver

Well-Known Member
Sep 16, 2015
926
2,479
450
Monaco
I sold my Lamm ML3's and this morning I was starting the packing process, first carefully putting the tubes in the correct boxes (lots of tubes). then moving the amplifier chassis out from near the speakers. yesterday I had returned the VAC Statement 450's to my friend as he has a few interested buyers.

the big 200+ pound VAC's + the 2 chassis (each side) ML3's had been on either side of my MM7's. unplugged and turned off.

so no more tube amps or their transformers near my speakers.

i had the same digital Beethoven file playing before and after i moved my Lamm amp chassis this morning, and there was a very noticeable and significant improvement in the liveliness and inner tonal glow and energy projection of the music after those amp chassis left the proximity of my speakers.

i had had a couple visitors mention that might happen and so after i thought about it, it's not a complete surprise......but still i had not had a thought to expect it. and it was more dramatic than i would have expected.

YMMV and i could be just imagining things. and i doubt it has anything to do with tubes or solid state. just how magnets in speakers (and maybe crossover components) might be effected.

And.....it could even be a proximity issue with the dart monos too.

Very interesting data point Mike. I can well imagine how the transformer core laminations could be a drag on the fluctuating magnetic fields of the speakers.

A system like your is so revealing that small effects such as this are readily audibly apparent.

On my to do list is to carry out spectrum analysis of magnetic fields in listening rooms and around equipment
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing