Preamps... nothing is perfect.

MadFloyd

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conrad johnson GAT does everything well and is equally at home with SE and BAL amps.
The sound is exactly the same at 10 or 70 on the volume control - no sweets spots. remote control is a pleasure to use
dynamic detailed and alive sounding with zero dryness. more so than Pass XP20, ARC REf5 and VTL 7.5 S1 I have previously owned.

conrad johnson GAT - just sounds right imo.

Shane, there is nothing about your GAT that you wish was better? Which other preamps have you auditioned?

EDIT: somehow missed your mentioning the other preamps that you owned, sorry.
 

XV-1

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Shane, there is nothing about your GAT that you wish was better? Which other preamps have you auditioned?

EDIT: somehow missed you mention of other preamps that you owned, sorry.

ha ha. you don't know what you don't know right. I believe GAT2 has slightly tighter deeper bass, so that would good I guess and everyone that has done the upgrade seem happy.


I did listen to guys on the internet stating that you MUST have balanced preamp to get the best out of balanced amps - so I bought the ARC ref5SE to go with my Dag amp. biggest waste of $$ ever. The GAT destroyed the ARC in sound quality, drive, dynamics, quietness, usability etc.

BTW - The GAT has a true tape monitor feature, so you can shove EQ etc into the tape loop and click in and out of direct sound or EQ sound - rather than having to put it into the signal chain.

If the pre amp is better, it will sound better se or balanced. Brands that cannot do both means something is amiss - imo

Honestly, the preamp has never been a weak link since I bought it and zero desire to move to anything else. I do have Telefunken 6922 tubes which are sensational.

cheers
 

KeithR

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I did listen to guys on the internet stating that you MUST have balanced preamp to get the best out of balanced amps - so I bought the ARC ref5SE to go with my Dag amp. biggest waste of $$ ever. The GAT destroyed the ARC in sound quality, drive, dynamics, quietness, usability etc. BTW - The GAT has a true tape monitor feature, so you can shove EQ etc into the tape loop and click in and out of direct sound or EQ sound - rather than having to put it into the signal chain.

well to be fair, shouldn't the GAT be compared with the Ref 10?
 

XV-1

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well to be fair, shouldn't the GAT be compared with the Ref 10?

If the balanced connection to balanced connection is so superior overt SE - No. Unless its all bollocks.

ref5se - 13k - GAT - 20k - ref10 - 30k.

If the ref10 sounded the same % better than the GAT did the over the ref5se, that would be awesome. Roy Gregory review comparing both said the GAT2 was superior to the Ref10. I will never know. 20k is stupid $$ for a pre amp - 30k - more so.
 

BlueFox

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Have you tried optimizing the power to your pre? I can’t speak about any of your pre choices, but I can honestly state that as I have bettered the power to my system, each affected component seemed to better itself. Last week I upgraded the Shunyata Typhon v1 to the new Typhon QR on my source (Lumin and Pass), and the increase in detail and clarity is still making me smile.
 

KeithR

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If the ref10 sounded the same % better than the GAT did the over the ref5se, that would be awesome. Roy Gregory review comparing both said the GAT2 was superior to the Ref10. I will never know. 20k is stupid $$ for a pre amp - 30k - more so.

Well, the Gat 2 is 24k and Roy Gregory actually owns a VTL so there's that...I actually thought Gregory wussed out in his "shootout"
 

bazelio

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I'd recommend you try a Music First TVC instead of a regular resistor-based passive. It might be the best of both worlds and won't be short on dynamics or tone. There are several reviewers who have gone this direction in recent years.

I recommend this because you've had multiple top tier SS and tube preamps in your system with little success. A transformer volume control has the extension you like about SS, but retains tonality/harmonics like a tube preamp. It might not have the ultimate resolution of a CH or something similar though, I really don't know as those kind of preamps don't interest me.

This.

And I'd put in a plug for an Emia AVC passive preamp as well. As Keith says, there will be no loss of dynamics, tone, or minutia. AVC passive vs stepped resistor passives = apples vs tangelos. And the best active preamps I've heard (EAR, Ypsilon, Dart, Pass, et. al.) aren't as good. In my listening experiments, the AVC gave me about 95% of no preamp at all (I'm able to use the balance control pots on my amp as volume control without any preamp for comparison purposes). So, there's very little room for improvement.
 
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XV-1

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Well, the Gat 2 is 24k and Roy Gregory actually owns a VTL so there's that...I actually thought Gregory wussed out in his "shootout"

yes he did. he did not want to upset all the ARC fans who forked out 30k :D

my whole point is balanced amps must have balanced preamps to sound great is BS. If the preamp is well designed it will sound great with both.
 

c1ferrari

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FWIW and from the professional audio universe:

Crane Song Avocet, Grace Design m905, and 2400 Audio Imperium.
Previously, Jeff Rowland, BAT, and Atma-Sphere served preamp duty.
 

Alpinist

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conrad johnson GAT does everything well and is equally at home with SE and BAL amps.

Other than the fact that it has no balanced circuitry.
 

XV-1

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Other than the fact that it has no balanced circuitry.

LOL What does that comment even mean?

The fact that it can sound better than preamps with balanced circuitry if used with balanced amps says everything.
 

bonzo75

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I don't know anything about CJ. The ref 10 is far superior to the 5se, guess that is due to the separate power supply, among other things. The ref 40 might be too. The ref 10 easily bettered the Ypsilon and the older version of the Dartzeel using constellation as the power amp. In the same shootout we also compared the Dartzeel and the Ypsilon with the Dartzeel power, where both were equal. We tried the Ypsilon in both active and passive mode.

The soundstage, bass slam, drive, sense of power from the ref 10 is humongous. For some reason sometimes vocals sounded a bit hard. I separately compared the ref 10 with Koda k10 and then I did not notice much difference in that system though we had the Koda power amp. Jazz head recently bought the K15 and rates or pretty highly especially as it works so well with the shun mooks.
 

microstrip

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(...) Roy Gregory review comparing both said the GAT2 was superior to the Ref10. I will never know. 20k is stupid $$ for a pre amp - 30k - more so.

It is not how I read the review - IMHO it was written in a way each could say the same relative to his preferred.

I still have the GAT, GAT2 and REF40 in the same room. And my advice is that it depends mostly on source and amplifier. Many times when we already have a system we do not insert a new comportment by its qualities, but also by the absence of defects when inserted in the system.

IMHO the Vivaldi DCS system is by far the best DAC I have listened to. When using it the GAT 2 is my choice, although the REF40 is more real, but can expose some excessive sibilance and detail with some recordings. However if I use the Metronome Calypso/C2A DAC my choice is the ARC REF40. When using the Lamm M1.2s I prefer the Lamm preamplifier ...
 
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MadFloyd

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In which ways is the REF40 more real than the GAT 2, microstrip?
 

microstrip

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I don't know anything about CJ. The ref 10 is far superior to the 5se, guess that is due to the separate power supply, among other things. The ref 40 might be too. The ref 10 easily bettered the Ypsilon and the older version of the Dartzeel using constellation as the power amp. In the same shootout we also compared the Dartzeel and the Ypsilon with the Dartzeel power, where both were equal. We tried the Ypsilon in both active and passive mode.

The soundstage, bass slam, drive, sense of power from the ref 10 is humongous. For some reason sometimes vocals sounded a bit hard. I separately compared the ref 10 with Koda k10 and then I did not notice much difference in that system though we had the Koda power amp. Jazz head recently bought the K15 and rates or pretty highly especially as it works so well with the shun mooks.

Well, I immediately would discard a system where sometimes vocals sounded a bit hard. IMHO we need to know exactly what was the Constellation model and version - their models sound from acceptable to sublime - to diagnose its cause. But I only really enjoyed their power amplifiers when using their top current preamplfiers. Again IMHO they sound unbalanced using tube preamplfiers.
 

bonzo75

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It was the second from the bottom. The hardness happened only when the AR was paired with the constellation, and only on certain vocals.
 

microstrip

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In which ways is the REF40 more real than the GAT 2, microstrip?

Slam and spreading soundstage - you feel more the space of the recording. Also vocals and instruments were closer in timbre and articulation to what I had assisted in live performances of the same recordings. It is not an easy choice, it is why I have not sold the REF40 yet ...
 

microstrip

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It was the second from the bottom

Centaur? (I am assuming you are skipping the new Revelation series) Version I or II?
 

bonzo75

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Centaur? (I am assuming you are skipping the new Revelation series) Version I or II?

It was the older series, not newer. I forget the model because it was the pre amps I was focused on
 

XV-1

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It is not how I read the review - IMHO it was written in a way each could say the same relative to his preferred.

I still have the GAT, GAT2 and REF40 in the same room. And my advice is that it depends mostly on source and amplifier. Many times when we already have a system we do not insert a new comportment by its qualities, but also by the absence of defects when inserted in the system.

IMHO the Vivaldi DCS system is by far the best DAC I have listened to. When using it the GAT 2 is my choice, although the REF40 is more real, but can expose some excessive sibilance and detail with some recordings. However if I use the Metronome Calypso/C2A DAC my choice is the ARC REF40. When using the Lamm M1.2s I prefer the Lamm preamplifier ...

Hey Micro

What do you find are the main differences between GAT and GAT2?

Cheers
 

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