R2R shootout session last night

flez007

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We met at Xavier's place down here (he usually posts around not that frequently) and listened to many tape project and other euro-vendor software thru three machines, a great ATR (Japanese Tascam) modified, a Technics 1520 modified by Tim Paravicini and an old Tascam also with a dedicated head out circuit, all feeding three different bottlehead preamps except for the Technics that had its own analog out circuit.

It was a great session, sound coming from tapes (particularly from the ATC/big BH preamp) was... just REEL to REAL!!!!

I got the old Tascam and the a small BH preamp to try at home, it will be a very interesting weekend!

pictures later...
 
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DaveyF

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Fernando, do post your pics and maybe tell us about your impressions of R to R vs. your analog rig. I have thought about adding R to R, only major drawback seems to be availability of titles. Oh, and the dreaded threading of the reels onto the machine:(:(
 

c1ferrari

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Fernando, do post your pics and maybe tell us about your impressions of R to R vs. your analog rig. I have thought about adding R to R, only major drawback seems to be availability of titles. Oh, and the dreaded threading of the reels onto the machine:(:(

DaveyF,

R2R is really terrific fun and the sonic benefit cannot be underestimated. I'll have you over, sometime, if you're interested :)
 

mep

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Fernando, do post your pics and maybe tell us about your impressions of R to R vs. your analog rig. I have thought about adding R to R, only major drawback seems to be availability of titles. Oh, and the dreaded threading of the reels onto the machine:(:(

Threading the big-boy reels is a piece of cake.
 

MylesBAstor

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flez007

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Fernando, do post your pics and maybe tell us about your impressions of R to R vs. your analog rig. I have thought about adding R to R, only major drawback seems to be availability of titles. Oh, and the dreaded threading of the reels onto the machine:(:(

Dave - with a little help from my friends we managed to install and listen the Tascam deck with the BH Seduction preamp and a Cotter step-up, not the best setup but gives one a fair idea of what is there behind R2R... bottom line:

a) in a scale to 1 to 10, my CDP is at 3, my Vinyl setup at 6 and the deck - as it is now - at 9. Instruments sound like instruments (not reproduced or gimmick of them)
b) human voice is as real as it can get, there are less dynamics compared to the Avid but this might be the step-up fault since it is not properly matched to be consistent with the output of my Chord phono preamp.

Next steps:

I will order a BH head preamp on Monday, not the big one but the middle scaled model, while keeping this Tascam for a while with the Cotter step-up until I find a good Otari or ATR in the market, I will have it modified/updated and will get the Tape project and other software providers tapes, I hope it works as smooth as I write this plan. :)
 

mep

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Flez-Welcome to the wonderful world of 15 ips 2 track tapes.
 

flez007

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Thanks mep - still worried of software availability, but worths the effort!
 

U47

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Nice thread! I'm interested to see what your findings are with a more proper step up transformer. I'm looking into this now. My rig is sounding pretty wonderful now, but I know with the right step up transformer it will be MAGIK.
Time to rip the Beyer input transformers from my old Ampex MX-35 mixer....

Rich Brown
 

JackD201

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Hi Fernando,

How did the EAR/Technics stack up?

Jack
 

flez007

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Jack - Both Technics sounded great, Xavier has two of them - one just for playback modified to skip all audio electronics directly from the heads to the head preamp, and another one modified by TdP that records and plays with its internal electronics.

I liked the Technics modified deck better, more organic and real - saying that - the ATR sounded even better with the TOTL Bottlehead head preamp.

I am working with a friend here to restore a Nagra T, now I see what´s in the antique car restoration hobby :`)
 

JackD201

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Lucky you Flez. We've been searching for someone who can do R2R repair and maintenance locally for four years to no avail. It wasn't a problem with our studios way back when. We just shipped the machines out to Hong Kong. In a personal capacity, it's a no go. :(
 

flez007

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I know at least two individuals that can help you out, both are in the USA but willing to fly to your place and set your deck properly Jack, PM me if you are intetested. It worths the effort.
 

JackD201

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That's equivalent to a lot of family vacations Flez, kind of hard to justify that right now but I'll give it some thought. Thanks for the offer. :)
 

xcortes

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The shootout Fernando mentions was really fun. To be more specific the decks were a Mike Spitz rebuilt ATR 102, a Bottlehead modded Technics 1500 with extended repro head, a Tim de Paravicini 1520 and a Tascam BR20 rewired for external preamp.

We compared the Seduction with the Tape Repro. As nice as the Seduction is the Repro is in another league. I've yet to try an Eros which I suspect will be way closer to the Repro than to the Seduction since the circuits are very similar.

We then compared the decks. The Tascam needs stepups since the heads are lower gain and impedance. I tried MC stepups at one time and they work nicely. I don't know if they're ideal but since this deck is only a spare one they seem to be a good solution.

The ATR with repro is fantastic, the level of realism, detail and easy goingness never ceases to amaze me. The big surprise was the Technics with the repro. I upgraded to the ATR at the same time than to the repro so I hadn't really compared both decks with the same electronics. This time we did it one after the other. The technics with BH mods and extended head is very close to the ATR! The guys at BH have done a great job with the mods. Don't get me wrong, there is some difference and it was clear that the big transport could do things the small one couldn't. But considering the difference in cost and size, this is the poster child in diminishing returns.

The Tascam with stepups was a notch below the Technics. Very nice too. The transport is very nice but the heads are not in the same league as the others. And the TdP was very nice albeit different. If I were forced to rank it I would rank it slightly belos the 1500 with the extended head and repro. The one thing whe it excels is in recording. We copied some tapes at 15 ips from the ATR to the TdP. This 15 mins demos are what we used as sources for the shooutout and what Fernando is using now at his home. Of course not the originals but very, very close.

Anxiously waiting for Series Three of the Tape Project!
 

c1ferrari

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xcortes and Fernando,

Thanks for sharing your experiences and observations :)
 

flez007

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Yes cool thread I'd be interested in hearing more about the step up transformers, and how it was used with the Seduction????

Jay

Jay - I understand that the Ampex deck has original heads installed, they are as you know low in voltage and impendance for the Seduction, so Xavier tried (quite succesfully in my opinion) with a step-up trans before the Seduction to help it to work within acceptable loads. I am actually hearing it that way and kills my analog rig for a wide margin.

We used two stepups, a Denon AU300LC and an Audio Interface 40, the later sounded a tad better to this ears.

As Xavier mentioned, this was a temporary solution since we might go and get new heads for this Deck with the right settings to play with the Seduction or Eros preamps.

I will post pics later....
 

xcortes

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The stepups were a patch since I couldn't use the Tascam heads directly to the Seduction. When I first rewired the Tascam the signal level was too low and the S/N level was unacceptable. Then I did some research and found out that these heads have much lower impedance too. So I tried the MC transformers and to my surprise they worked quite well. I think one could optimize the transformer depending on the actual impedances but if I were to use the BR20 in the long run I would replace the heads instead (the transport, BTW, is quite nice).

We listened to this setup again yesterday and it continues to amaze me how good it can sound. But then we installed the TdP 1520 and the difference was huge.

Anyway, I had the deck, the Seduction and the SUTs already so it was actually a bit of luck that they worked together. Hope this helps.
 

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