Endgame pre-power or Int recommendations

bonzo75

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The Aelius could not drive Vivid Giya G1 and Soundlabs for sure. Put any symphony in and the music wouldn't flow, bass was not good. It just could not handle the swells of orchestral. The Luxman m900u beat it easy on all fronts. The Vitus and Gryphon Mephisto (the latter which I directly compared) are better in different ways but much more expensive. Of those I would take Vitus if someone wants flow, liquidity and tone from SS. Gryphon for grip, bass, jumps, speed, detail, locked in soundstage, for me a bit unnatural. CH and Spectral and Boulder are very good if one wants a clean, fast, transparent sound. However there are so many good amps why lock oneself in a system like Spectral with MIT even if it sounds good? Then you will forever be upgrading from 400 to 500 to 600 trying to get the next trade up to retain used market value. I would go Dagostino over these because of the flexibility.

FM Acoustics is excellent, try to find a 411 used, and 155 pre. Then if you go analog find a phono and you are done.

CAT can drive tough to drive speakers as far as valve push pulls go.

A couple of people have moved from Dagostino and CAT JL7 to Alieno OTL.
 

morricab

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Speakers will not be changed because they are my favorite ones.
The Ypsilon Aelius ll drives them perfectly and with awsome refinement, not sure about the Phaeton.

I was not really proposing that you do so. The Thiel is a very good speaker...unforgiving but very good.
 

morricab

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The Aelius could not drive Vivid Giya G1 and Soundlabs for sure. Put any symphony in and the music wouldn't flow, bass was not good. It just could not handle the swells of orchestral. The Luxman m900u beat it easy on all fronts. The Vitus and Gryphon Mephisto (the latter which I directly compared) are better in different ways but much more expensive. Of those I would take Vitus if someone wants flow, liquidity and tone from SS. Gryphon for grip, bass, jumps, speed, detail, locked in soundstage, for me a bit unnatural. CH and Spectral and Boulder are very good if one wants a clean, fast, transparent sound. However there are so many good amps why lock oneself in a system like Spectral with MIT even if it sounds good? Then you will forever be upgrading from 400 to 500 to 600 trying to get the next trade up to retain used market value. I would go Dagostino over these because of the flexibility.

FM Acoustics is excellent, try to find a 411 used, and 155 pre. Then if you go analog find a phono and you are done.

CAT can drive tough to drive speakers as far as valve push pulls go.

A couple of people have moved from Dagostino and CAT JL7 to Alieno OTL.

From what I have heard of the two brands, I would take a Ypsilon every day of the week and twice on Sunday over Vitus or Luxman. Maybe the Vivid is a tough load but one of hte worst Vivid demos I heard was with big Luxman monos, clean and transparent, yes but completely tone deaf and soulless. Vitus has a rather dark sound IMO where they seem to have deliberately voiced the amps to sound this way (reminds me of the BAT VK 200 SS amp I had). Haven't head the Mephisto but if it sounds like other Gryphon amps then it is lacking in Verve and dynamics.

All your suggestions are not really considering the ultra-revealing nature of the Thiel CS3.7. My partner has this speaker so I have several years experience listening to this speaker regularly with a very wide array of amplifiers. I can tell you that most of your suggestions will not give a satisfying sound as the highs will be revealed to be rather coarse with most of them. It is a quite analytical sounding speaker and needs truly pristine highs from the electronics not to sound relentless.

It is funny because we found that it fell flat with some PP tubes (KR VA880 for example and Octave monos sounded bright and edgy) some SETs (my JJ did not do a good job on it) and low powered SS (Pass XA30.5) and high powered SS (McIntosh MC-501 monos) but rocked with some others like the cheap and cheerful PureSound A30 (even in 18 watt Class A triode mode), VAC 30/30 (awesome bass...really), NAT Symbiosis SE, KR VA350, Cayin 845 SET monos (up to moderate volumes), Wall Audio Opus M50 monos, Line Magnetic monos (can't remember the model but with 845 output tubes), Aries Cerat Diana integrated and Diana Forte.

The FM demos that I have heard at Munich are ok but not inspiring for the kind of money they are asking. The use of the word excellent here is more than a bit of hyperbole...

CAT is about the only recommendation on your list I can get on board with, sorry to say; however, I don't know how you can recommend Luxman or Vitus and CAT in the same post...they sound nothing alike and CAT is far superior in nearly every way to the other two if you really care about realistic sounding music.

Given that we have had very good experience with hybrids on the Thiel, I don't see Ypsilon as a problematic choice and is likely to sound good given how i have heard the highs from their amps (Aelius, Hyperion and Phaeton are the ones I have heard now multiple times and almost always sounding very good...can't say the same for your other choices).
 

bonzo75

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It's great that you listen at hifi shows and come up with such judgements. Golden ear indeed.

Go to Joel's and listen properly the Ypsilon and the Luxman.
 

bonzo75

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Not to mention the Ypsilon hybrid you keep banging on about from Munich is twice the cost and twice the power of the Aelius, and probably has better current and drive as well
 

morricab

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It's great that you listen at hifi shows and come up with such judgements. Golden ear indeed.

Go to Joel's and listen properly the Ypsilon and the Luxman.

If it sounds good at a show then usually that combination is good and if not then there are lots of possibile reasons why not. I simply pointed out that it didn't sound good, which suggests it is not a great match with Vivids...
 

morricab

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Not to mention the Ypsilon hybrid you keep banging on about from Munich is twice the cost and twice the power of the Aelius, and probably has better current and drive as well

I have not been banging on any Ypsilon amp, what a dumb thing to say. I even suggested the Phaeton would work well, which is much less expensive. You really like to cherry pick what people say to set up a strawman, don't you?
 

bonzo75

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I have not been banging on any Ypsilon amp, what a dumb thing to say. I even suggested the Phaeton would work well, which is much less expensive. You really like to cherry pick what people say to set up a strawman, don't you?

You have a lot of posts on this forum about the 2016 or 17 Ypsilon demo with the Wilsons
 

bonzo75

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Very simple question, when did you hear the Aelius, with what speakers?
 

morricab

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Very simple question, when did you hear the Aelius, with what speakers?

Where did you hear them besides some in some system with Vivid speakers that you didn't seem to like?
 

bonzo75

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Where did you hear them besides some in some system with Vivid speakers that you didn't seem to like?

I already said. In three systems. Two with vivid G1, one with soundlabs ultimate, and hey, I am pointing everyone to a location where you can actually go and do a compare with Luxman. I liked the vivid with the Luxman. And you don't have to go by what I say, just go there and listen instead of giving your show experiences.

In all systems, it struggled on drive.
 

morricab

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I already said. In three systems. Two with vivid G1, one with soundlabs ultimate, and hey, I am pointing everyone to a location where you can actually go and do a compare with Luxman. I liked the vivid with the Luxman. And you don't have to go by what I say, just go there and listen instead of giving your show experiences.

In all systems, it struggled on drive.

"I liked the vivid with the Luxman"

THat tells me about all I need to know. I have heard Vivids sound good as well (interestingly with a Devialet, which was a surprise) but not with Luxman...


"
In all systems, it struggled on drive"

You mean with Vivid G1 and Big Soundlabs it struggled...those are the only two speakers you mention. A bit far from "all systems", don't you think? Soundlabs are special anyway, it is a huge capacitor and a lot of amps struggle on them...especially SS output because big current is not what you need for them.


I have heard the Aelius with Ypsilon's own speaker (also with the Phaeton) and on Perfect 8 speakers. Both times it sounded great. Again I am referring to the system of which Aelius was an integral part.
 

bonzo75

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"I liked the vivid with the Luxman"

THat tells me about all I need to know. I have heard Vivids sound good as well (interestingly with a Devialet, which was a surprise) but not with Luxman...


"
In all systems, it struggled on drive"

You mean with Vivid G1 and Big Soundlabs it struggled...those are the only two speakers you mention. A bit far from "all systems", don't you think? Soundlabs are special anyway, it is a huge capacitor and a lot of amps struggle on them...especially SS output because big current is not what you need for them.


I have heard the Aelius with Ypsilon's own speaker (also with the Phaeton) and on Perfect 8 speakers. Both times it sounded great. Again I am referring to the system of which Aelius was an integral part.

Everyone who went to Munich heard it with the perfect 8
 

Loheswaran

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reach for the stars - get a Constellation - only amp I have heard to really take charge of big Magico speakers
 

JackD201

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reach for the stars - get a Constellation - only amp I have heard to really take charge of big Magico speakers

The Centaur IIs are chips of the ol' Herc II blocks. I would consider these as well. It has speed and harmonic richness. I would go for the CH M1 if I was more bent towards purity of tone, sweetness and dimensionality. I also like the never aging Lamm Hybrids particularly because of how changing just a single pair of relatively inexpensive tubes can bring you closer to wherever you might want to go.

Then there's the curve ball. The small and simple KR P135 45 based pre and the VA200 with the 842VDHs in a Circlotron circuit. Stupid good for the money which I shouldn't be saying lest prices go up LOL If liquidity is high on the agenda, this is a must audition IMO

All would effortlessly drive the 3.7s and fall within the budget.
 

morricab

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The Centaur IIs are chips of the ol' Herc II blocks. I would consider these as well. It has speed and harmonic richness. I would go for the CH M1 if I was more bent towards purity of tone, sweetness and dimensionality. I also like the never aging Lamm Hybrids particularly because of how changing just a single pair of relatively inexpensive tubes can bring you closer to wherever you might want to go.

Then there's the curve ball. The small and simple KR P135 45 based pre and the VA200 with the 842VDHs in a Circlotron circuit. Stupid good for the money which I shouldn't be saying lest prices go up LOL If liquidity is high on the agenda, this is a must audition IMO

All would effortlessly drive the 3.7s and fall within the budget.

Yes, the P135 was a very nice surprise! Haven't heard the VA200 though I felt the kind of heat it generates!
 

andromedaaudio

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If you really want power i assume Boulder 3050 s and Dagostino s relentless are the way to go , they
Will Fry your Thiel s if they have to.
 

andromedaaudio

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reach for the stars - get a Constellation - only amp I have heard to really take charge of big Magico speakers

Oh man really are they that hard to drive,....far from a compliment lol.
Like saying my speakers are so good and demanding they need at least a 200 k amp, they Will pull up the nose for anything less.
 

andromedaaudio

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There is a Krell MRA for sale on audio markt, 14000 Watts in 0,5 ohm all in class A., IT Will make the constellation weep

And it Will completely Smoke the magico lol
 
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