So how much detail do we perceive when we listen to live music?

caesar · Jan 19, 2011

I have been listening to some Maggies recently, and they really don't have that much detail compared to many brands. There is a definit lack of transparency to sources, compared to a speaker like a Martin Logan or a Wilson, yet they sound very life-like.

Some audiophiles get overly excited about hearing some detail in a recording - being an instrument separated from the pack, a cough, or someone scratching their back. But when one is immersed in a live show, do these details really matter?

FrantzM · Jan 19, 2011

Caesar

Would you tell us what Maggies you have been listening to and with what electronics? The tweeter in the maggi 20.1 for example do not take a back seat to any of the brand you mentioned. i would say IMHO the tweeter in the Maggie has more HF extension, definition and clarity than the aforementioned brands ...
I would however agree with yo that the low level resolution of some ML and Wilson are superior to anything I have heard so far from Magnepan. I have not heard the 1.7 and 3.7.

mep · Jan 19, 2011

Caesar-You may have ruffled some Frantz feathers as Frantz is a lover of Maggies. I do think one of your sentences needs some clarification though. You said that Magnepans don’t sound transparent to the sources, but yet they sound very life-like. Never mind detail, I am having a hard time reconciling how a pair of speakers can sound very life-like and yet not sound transparent to the source.

Phelonious Ponk · Jan 19, 2011

So is the question about detail in live performance or detail in Maggies? Detail in live performance is highly variable. Got great seats for a string quartet in a small hall, or a close table for an acoustic jazz ensemble in a great room? Pretty good detail. Rock band? Anywhere? You're listening to the PA system. That's going to be the primary limitation. I'm one of those audiophiles who loves detail; it really draws me in. I completely understand that its not there in the typical live event. The typical recording is not made at a live event and most of those that are are made with many microphones at reasonably to very close range. It captures the live performance, but not the live sound. Give me all the detail the recording captured, please.

By the way, the Maggies I've heard always struck me as being particularly good at detail.

Tim

flez007 · Jan 19, 2011

it depends on how we set priorities . I am with Tim here in the way that detail grabs me into the performance such as soundstage recreation. so it will be hard for someone like me to label a system "musical" without a decent detail retrieval.

fas42 · Jan 19, 2011

I am with Tim here in the way that detail grabs me into the performance such as soundstage recreation

The trick is to get both, but Tim, for one, doesn't believe me on this

. When you can get both imaging AND soundstage on an appallingly recorded live concert of, say, Ike and Tina Turner, then you know you're cooking with gas ...

Frank

fas42 · Jan 19, 2011

definit lack of transparency to sources

caesar, could be the digital setup driving them. Many audio people hate digititus, that is, "nasty" low-level distortion, so they tweak the system to filter out the high frequency component of the music. The system sounds real "nice" but there is no detail there because it's being stripped out by the tweaks to the system. The first time I heard this effect (no, not the other one, Tim!

) I nearly fell off my chair!

I thought, my God, not invisible speakers, but invisible blankets!

Frank

caesar · Jan 19, 2011

This thread is not about Maggies in particular, but I don't believe that maggies are the most transparent speakers out there. I heard the 4 box Scarlatti drive the Maggies, and it was pretty incredible. But the Wilson sophias in the same system throw more detail at you. So do Martin Logan clx's, which may be the most transparent speakers ever made. Yet Maggies are so lifelike. So are Conrad Johnson electronics, which polish up the turds pretty well and are not the last word in transparency. But they just seem to have the relevant musical details.

Johnny Vinyl · Jan 19, 2011

Sorry for this, but I thought the thread title was referring to actually listening to "live" music, only to discover that a certain speaker when listening to a recording of "live music'" didn't cut the mustard.

Personally I think that the perception of detail increases whenever we desire to hear a certain piece of music, and it matters little as to the speakers and components you have at your disposal. Some days my Totem Sttafs are going through the motions when playing something, but that's only because I'm going through the motions of just playing some music for the sake of playing some music. However, when the time of day or night and the mood strikes me, they shine and I swear I hear every detail that the recording can give me on my system.

I don't fault my speakers for any lack of detail, I fault myself for not opening my ears and relaxing to the beautiful sounds of the music I chose to have in my collection.

mep · Jan 19, 2011

John72953 said:
Sorry for this, but I thought the thread title was referring to actually listening to "live" music, only to discover that a certain speaker when listening to a recording of "live music'" didn't cut the mustard.

Personally I think that the perception of detail increases whenever we desire to hear a certain piece of music, and it matters little as to the speakers and components you have at your disposal. Some days my Totem Sttafs are going through the motions when playing something, but that's only because I'm going through the motions of just playing some music for the sake of playing some music. However, when the time of day or night and the mood strikes me, they shine and I swear I hear every detail that the recording can give me on my system.

I don't fault my speakers for any lack of detail, I fault myself for not opening my ears and relaxing to the beautiful sounds of the music I chose to have in my collection.

John-this is the kind of info that Tom was looking for on his thread. And I agree, you have to be ready to receive the information or it's never going to sound good.

fas42 · Jan 19, 2011

Some days my Totem Sttafs are going through the motions when playing something, but that's only because I'm going through the motions of just playing some music for the sake of playing some music. However, when the time of day or night and the mood strikes me, they shine and I swear I hear every detail that the recording can give me on my system.

And I agree, you have to be ready to receive the information or it's never going to sound good

This, unfortunately, is where I am going to disagree with the vast majority of people here. My take on the matter would be that in fact the system WAS sounding different on those two separate occasions.

I have listened over and over again to dozens of people's setups from hideously expensive to extremely modest, and in every, every case, I will internally roll my eyes and say to myself, here's that good old distortion again, but after a reasonable time, my ear/brain gradually gets used to the distortion, and manages to tune it it out to a reasonable degree -- a bit of alcohol always helps!

Having experienced this variability of sound from one part of the day to another, and having a much better handle on what's going on in the big picture, I would say there's every likelihood of there being more distortion around at one time versus another. The trick, of course, is to stop that happening, because it might be a neighbour turning on his computer ...

Frank

caesar · Jan 24, 2011

I just wonder if people don't analyze, and just let go more during a real performance. However, the left brain starts to fire strongly when the system goes on.

FrantzM · Jan 24, 2011

caesar said:
I just wonder if people don't analyze, and just let go more during a real performance. However, the left brain starts to fire strongly when the system goes on.

ALl Maggies things aside so far I have not experience a system that entirely fools me into believing that I am experiencing a live performance... And I listen to a lot of live performance ..

Now the notion of "details" and "Transparency" ... need clarification. The Orginal CLS may likely be the first speaker for which that term was coined. I owned and liked it but subsequent exposures to other (better) speakers let that "shine" the CLS threw on the music was a case of elevated mid treble .. Compared to many other speakers it came to sound threadbare .. The CLX is not such speaker, IMO it disappears in an rather startling way.. and plays music in a most realistic fashion ... It definetely needs subs though. Yet, I suspect that a CLX with adequate subs can challenge the SOTA speakers at a fraction of the price ..

Back to Live performance .. There are aspect of details one focuses on in a Live Performance .. And it depends on the type of muisc or venue .. The "details" are there whether we focus on these or not, they are there. We are not yet close in reproducing these ... in our home. Not yet

fas42 · Jan 24, 2011

However, the left brain starts to fire strongly when the system goes on.

I would hate to have that happen! Why do you think people do that?

Frank

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So how much detail do we perceive when we listen to live music?

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