From ARC to CH Precision

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
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108
I recently completed a switch from a full top of the line ARC system (Ref 10 Phono Pre, Ref 10 Pre, Ref 750SE Amps), to a full CH Precision system (P1 Phono, L1 Pre, M1 Amps), and the result has been great, well beyond my expectations. As a background, I only use a turntable (TW Acustic, TW Acustic & Kozma arms, Atlas, Proteus D and Madame Snakewood carts) as a source, and have had many pieces of ARC gear, mostly top tier, for the last several years. I have been a happy listener with that and never found anything SS that remotely catch my attention, or digital for that matter. Early this year, for convenience reasons because of my location, I started to consider alternatives to tubes, and eventually after research and listening, choose CH Precision as the right choice. Still, even though in theory it was the right choice, I was waiting until I actually hear it in my room to confirm whether or not I made the right choice or a (very costly) mistake.
Now I can say that it was not only the right decision, but one that open a new range of experiences that I was not aware were there. Before going into the sound, the first thing is the initial experience, which was almost traumatic. With ARC your setup is basically turning it on or off, and that is mostly your range of choices (save for phono pre). With CH you have so many functions and choices that at the beginning I was confused and a little bit saturated. Fortunately most of the features and choices are self evident and in no time you figure them out.
As for the sound, after setting it up correctly, I have all the positive characteristics of the ARC sound, plus more. More in the sense of control, air extension both ends, definition and precision in soundstage. There is no area were I miss anything I had before, and many areas were get many sounds and spatial clues that was not aware were there before. Not that ARC is bad, it is great and still love it, but CH is a new higher level for me.
If I can put an example, ARC is like a famous chef, which prepares one dish excellent, like the best in the world could, and everything you get in the restaurant revolves around that flavor. It is good, comforting and familiar, and everybody would love it as it has a very easy going, warm feeling. CH is like a 3 star chef that can do that dish, improve on it, but then the menu also brings a few more surprises you would love and did not know it could be done (actually this example came to mind after a recent culinary experience in Piemonte, Italy, which was like that).
After some more listening I will post on the excellent P1 and the current and voltage inputs. Incredible what it can get out of the carts.
 

rsorren1

Well-Known Member
Sep 6, 2013
365
133
348
Dallas area
Congratulations! Welcome to the CH Precision experience. Back at the end of 2016, I too made the switch from Audio Research (Ref210s, Ref Anniversary) to CH Precision (D1/C1/L1/P1/M1/(3)X1s). I agree that Audio Research components are fine sounding instruments. But CH Precision is at another level. Your P1 and L1 will sound better with X1s. That is for you to try and decide when time and funds allow. For now, Enjoy! If you have any questions we owners of CH components are always happy to share our experiences here on WBF
 

JackD201

WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
12,308
1,425
1,820
Manila, Philippines
Welcome :)
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
1,943
343
Hi RCottin,
i am happy for your experience,because i did same and some here was thinking i become crazy
I listened with tube since 1979 till 2016 and in the last 12 years with top Audio tekkie,ANJ and Kondo,so very special tube amp and i never liked Transistor amp
But after listening CH in demo and then in my home i was shocking for his quality and i bought and now i have L1,P1,X1 and M1 mono

Also my friend with top Viva pre and mono amp listen CH and bought

Are really special amp.

I suggest in future like rsorren suggest you to buy X1
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
Thank you. Always good to know that others went through the same path with similar results.
Agree on X1´s. They are part of the plan and, as you said, is matter of time and funds.
On the P1, with the Proteus D, I find that the current input is a clear winner. However, with the Atlas may be 60/40 towards current input,as the resolution and sense of unrestrained flow is amazing, but properly set (and with assistance of the incredible set up Wizard) the voltage input brings some sense of aplom and balance that is also appealing. Have not tried the Madake yet.
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
1,943
343
Also my friend has P1 and Atlas and doesn't know if put in current or voltage.
Some lp is better in current and some in voltage
I have Atlas sl that is perfect in current because his internal impedance is lower
I have also Opus 1 perfect in current and Coralstone and GFS perfect in voltage
 

Elliot G.

Industry Expert
Jul 22, 2010
3,286
2,958
1,360
Fort Lauderdale, Florida
www.bendingwaveusa.com
Thank you. Always good to know that others went through the same path with similar results.
Agree on X1´s. They are part of the plan and, as you said, is matter of time and funds.
On the P1, with the Proteus D, I find that the current input is a clear winner. However, with the Atlas may be 60/40 towards current input,as the resolution and sense of unrestrained flow is amazing, but properly set (and with assistance of the incredible set up Wizard) the voltage input brings some sense of aplom and balance that is also appealing. Have not tried the Madake yet.
Can you explain how you the wizard works for those who have not tried it?
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
I can try from an user point of view. The setup wizard works by applying diferent loads to a signal that comes in a supplied test record. You set the initial border parameters and it will run the test and display the resulting curves. Once you find out what is the better range and run the test again with tighter parameters and keep doing it until you narrow it down to very precise levels. The best part is that it takes in consideration the whole system and not just the cart load, so you get a setup based on the reality of your system. In the case of my Lyra Atlas, I ended up with a load of 182, far fromwhat I used with ARC and from my instinc setup. The result is really good. What was also interesting is to see on the curves how a few ohms threw the whole system off. Then you may fine tune the setup by ear but so far have not done that. I would says that this level of precision by ear would require a lot of time patience discipline very focused listening and knowledge.
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
Also my friend has P1 and Atlas and doesn't know if put in current or voltage.
Some lp is better in current and some in voltage
I have Atlas sl that is perfect in current because his internal impedance is lower
I have also Opus 1 perfect in current and Coralstone and GFS perfect in voltage

Nice carts. I have been tempted by Coralstone to have a complete different flavor but have not been able to get any consistent points of view on it. Not only for it sound (some love some hate it) but also for consistency of the carts
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
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Bangkok
Hello RCottin,

I see you have the Madeke Snakewood. It is outside the subject of this thread, but could you briefly give us your view on this rather rare cartridge. On this forum I haven’t heard a person with this cart.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
Madake Snakewood has been one of the best surprises I have had in cart selection. I was looking for a softer (in a good way) alternative to the Atlas and an Ortofon A95 I had installed at the time, and Jeff Catalano (TW distributor) suggested the Madake. I have know Jeff for many years and know his impecable music and sound taste, and reluctance to follow any hype if it does not have real merits; we also know each others preference and have developed a way to understand what the other is saying. So I decided to buy the Madake and when placing the order there was one Snakewood available and I got it. It was the right choice as it has what I was looking for, a nice well rounded presentation but not at the expense of being too warm or mellow. To my surprise it is also super fast, lots of controlled energy and extention. When purchased I thought that I was getting a softer cart to alternate from time to time and what I got is an equal to the Atlas on its own grounds, good to listen to all kind of music, with an incredible balance detail weight and flow. I would say that if I wanted to impress somebody with my system on a quick demo, I would use the Atlas as it has all this energy and speed and layer after layer of textures and sounds, but if somebody would listen to a full album to enjoy it on a very involving way, I may use the Snakewood. To be clear, Atlas is one of my all time favorties, and my go to reference, but Snakewood earn its place up there based on its balanced totally uncolored extended presentation.
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
P.D. As a point of reference, I have had on my previous ARC system GFS, Air Tight PC 1 Supreme, Ortofon A95, Lyra Atlas and Transfiguration Proteus D and Madake Snakewood
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
1,943
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Is incredible because some tell Madake is not very good and some,also some my friend tell is the most natural cart in the market
 

gian60

Well-Known Member
Apr 17, 2016
2,503
1,943
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I am also sure Proteus D is fantastic
I never listen but 2 friend has Proteus and prefer to the Atlas and my old transfiguration temper was also very good,one of my favorite cart
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
I cannot speak for the regular Madame, as I have not hear it in my system. But the Madame Snakewood is indeed very natural, but not at the expense of softness or mellowness or lack of weight or energy. Definitely natural. I do not think I would replace my Atlas with it if I have to keep just one, but being able to have more than one, definitely a keeper.
As for the Proteus D, I did not emphazised on it more as I want to have more time with it to confirm my impressions, but preliminary can tell you that it looks like it will be my new reference go to cart for everything. So far it sumarizes the best bits of the others in one. In the current input it is super fast, lots of energy and impact, very delicate and finely resolved and keep surprising me with details, atmosphere and sounds that did not noticed before. Also very neutral but in a slightly different way
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
Madake Snakewood has been one of the best surprises I have had in cart selection. I was looking for a softer (in a good way) alternative to the Atlas and an Ortofon A95 I had installed at the time, and Jeff Catalano (TW distributor) suggested the Madake. I have know Jeff for many years and know his impecable music and sound taste, and reluctance to follow any hype if it does not have real merits; we also know each others preference and have developed a way to understand what the other is saying. So I decided to buy the Madake and when placing the order there was one Snakewood available and I got it. It was the right choice as it has what I was looking for, a nice well rounded presentation but not at the expense of being too warm or mellow. To my surprise it is also super fast, lots of controlled energy and extention. When purchased I thought that I was getting a softer cart to alternate from time to time and what I got is an equal to the Atlas on its own grounds, good to listen to all kind of music, with an incredible balance detail weight and flow. I would say that if I wanted to impress somebody with my system on a quick demo, I would use the Atlas as it has all this energy and speed and layer after layer of textures and sounds, but if somebody would listen to a full album to enjoy it on a very involving way, I may use the Snakewood. To be clear, Atlas is one of my all time favorties, and my go to reference, but Snakewood earn its place up there based on its balanced totally uncolored extended presentation.

Thank you for your view. Do you have all three carts on the TW Acoustic at the same time?

Kindest regards,
Tang
 

RCottin

Well-Known Member
Oct 21, 2017
28
12
108
No. Two arms at the same time. The third and fourth arms are complicated and awkward to use. What I am doing now is that the three carts are mounted each on one arm, which in turn is mounted on an arm board; each arm board has marks to align it in either one of the mounting towers, so whenever I want to switch arms is just a matter of one allen bolt and that is it
 

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