Goodbye Vivaldi

Mdp632

Well-Known Member
May 29, 2016
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Congrats to the owners of these fine dacs like the DCS and MSB. At the level you guys are at ;isn't all a matter of personal taste. In exotic car world ; someone may prefer a Porsche, Lamborghini or Ferrari.

Amongst those three you can't say any is less of a car than the other. Just different and special in their own unique way. Just like the DCS and MSB :)

Enjoy
 
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Al M.

VIP/Donor
Sep 10, 2013
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likely the best way to understand continuousness would be to sit here and listen to 1/2" RTR tape with me, and then progressively hear lesser formats on the same recording. that stepping down in data density, tonal steadiness and rock solid presentation (collectively continuousness) would then become easy to pick out. same with digital players/dacs.

Thank you, Mike, for the helpful explanation which makes me much more understand what you mean. The terms,

data density
tonal steadiness
rock solid presentation

are useful, 'data density' perhaps the most because it is the least ambiguous.

On the other hand, in this particular context 'continuousness' is far too ambiguous a term to be of any use in describing things. It just leads to confusion. I may be the only one who thinks that way, but I strongly suspect this not to be the case.

Thanks
Al
 

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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IMHO it one of the most perverse habits of this hobby - trying to rank every think and particularly ranking apples with oranges.

I know that this is intrinsic to many people, after many years reading Stereophile recommended components :), but I find this need to rank everything spoils any interest on debating high-end. IMHO this is an hobby of matching and preference, the interesting thing is the why's of why something sounds better in a particular system for soneone, not how it ranks in the imaginary of those who do not have experience with it.

I'm not sure why you felt you needed to quote my post here??:confused:
 

SuperDave

Well-Known Member
May 12, 2017
252
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Texas
Thanks Mike, I really appreciate it! I’ve been following your posts and it is really a testimony to MSB’s preamp module that it gets so close in sound quality to the Dartzeel preamp. I’ve also heard some feedback that the Soulution 725 preamp is at least equal or slightly better than the MSB preamp module. As for me, the ARC Reference 10 preamp is leaving and I’ll be running direct from the Select II DAC to my Vandersteen M7-HPA monoblocks. Also looking at a six bay 30TB RAID configured Synology NAS to go with my Roon Nucleus Plus. No MSB Transport for now but maybe in the future if I still feel there is a need for it.

All the best,
Ken

Cincy & Ken,
Congrats on the Select II!! I had a feeling you were going this way. K-01X, K1, & now Select II. I knew when I had the Ref Dac in house for a demo, the K-01X would have to go at some point. I haven't heard the Select II at home yet and am interested to see if I prefer the HD pre or going direct to the HD amps. Like Mike, I'm guessing I'll prefer the pre in place.

Dave
 

jh901

Well-Known Member
Jun 22, 2018
25
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PITTSBURGH
This thread just died?!

How are Select II owners finding their digital versus turntable?

I was also hoping the thread would get to Light Harmonic DaVinci. Is it the final step up!?
 
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es347

VIP/Donor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 20, 2010
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The day I thought would never come has arrived. My trusty dCS /Aurender front end (DAC, Clock, Upsampler, Aurender W20) has been bested by the......MSB Select II DAC. Mike Bovaird of Suncoast Audio lent me his demo unit for the weekend. I spent it comparing the two rigs and much to my surprise in my system, in my room, it wasn't even close. The Select II has more resolution, blacker background, sharper images and most surprising of all, the characteristics of a reference class pre-amp. I fed the DAC output direct to the D'Agostino mono blocks and wanted for nothing. Each instrument had greater weight than the Vivaldi output. I spent most of the weekend trying to find a set up where the Vivaldi would compete but I couldn't.

One DAC with simple inputs (ethernet, power) and simple outputs (balanced analogs to my D'Ags) did the job. No upsampling, no filter selections. Vanilla configuration that beat the pants off the system that was the culmination of 15 years of loyalty and upgrades from dCS. I feel guilty I like the MSB so much. In any case, the new Select shows up on Tuesday and I shall be cocooned in my room thereafter coming out only when absolutely necessary.

Set up: Select II DAC with MQA/Roon network renderer, balanced analog output and femto 33 clock module. Two power supply chassis's (one AC, on DC). D'Agostino M400 mono blocks. Magico M3 speakers. Lots of Transparent cabling.

Cincy

..msrp?
 

Alpinist

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Jun 17, 2014
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Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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Cincy & Ken,
Congrats on the Select II!! I had a feeling you were going this way. K-01X, K1, & now Select II. I knew when I had the Ref Dac in house for a demo, the K-01X would have to go at some point. I haven't heard the Select II at home yet and am interested to see if I prefer the HD pre or going direct to the HD amps. Like Mike, I'm guessing I'll prefer the pre in place.

Dave

There was a poster on WBF recently who had the Select II, 2 x PS boxes and the W20, now he has the Aries Cerat Kassandra Sig LE, says it is well ahead. I can't personally voice for that as I have the Kassandra Ref version, but I must say, I did hear the MSB Reference at Munich in their own demo setup, and it didn't sound so hot to my ears. The Kassandra Ref beat my previous Audio Note DAC 5 (and some) and the CH Precision C1. Lampi GG1 and DAVE by some margin.

YMMV and IMO.
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,467
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There was a poster on WBF recently who had the Select II, 2 x PS boxes and the W20, now he has the Aries Cerat Kassandra Sig LE, says it is well ahead. I can't personally voice for that as I have the Kassandra Ref version, but I must say, I did hear the MSB Reference at Munich in their own demo setup, and it didn't sound so hot to my ears. The Kassandra Ref beat my previous Audio Note DAC 5 (and some) and the CH Precision C1. Lampi GG1 and DAVE by some margin.

YMMV and IMO.

please ask that new Aries Cerat owner to return to WBF and allow us to learn from his experience with these 2 dacs. I know I would like to read about that and understand the context.
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
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There was a poster on WBF recently who had the Select II, 2 x PS boxes and the W20, now he has the Aries Cerat Kassandra Sig LE, says it is well ahead. I can't personally voice for that as I have the Kassandra Ref version, but I must say, I did hear the MSB Reference at Munich in their own demo setup, and it didn't sound so hot to my ears. The Kassandra Ref beat my previous Audio Note DAC 5 (and some) and the CH Precision C1. Lampi GG1 and DAVE by some margin.

YMMV and IMO.

Should we ask the moderators to change the tittle of the thread from Goodbye Vivaldi to Goodbye Vivaldi, Goodbye MSB Sellect II? :confused:

IMHO when we change some equipment we should post on Welcome new equipment.
 

Alpinist

Well-Known Member
Jun 17, 2014
530
143
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USA
There was a poster on WBF recently who had the Select II, 2 x PS boxes and the W20, now he has the Aries Cerat Kassandra Sig LE, says it is well ahead. I can't personally voice for that as I have the Kassandra Ref version, but I must say, I did hear the MSB Reference at Munich in their own demo setup, and it didn't sound so hot to my ears. The Kassandra Ref beat my previous Audio Note DAC 5 (and some) and the CH Precision C1. Lampi GG1 and DAVE by some margin.

YMMV and IMO.

I’m not familiar with what components and speakers were used at Munich 2018 with the Reference DAC or if they were nearly as good as the MSB M204 and YG Acoustics Sonja they used at RMAF 2017. I do know from comparing several times on the same gear that the Select II DAC is substantially better sounding than the Reference DAC, although I did like the sound of the Reference DAC quite a bit at RMAF.
 

Legolas

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Dec 27, 2015
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It was this system.
13028e4b9fc38e1c2ca80b91a74ed0bf.jpg

It was on the 2nd floor in the separate rooms, with other systems in the 100K-400K USD systems, and this room was the worst IMO, very flat and synthetic sounding. I believe the speakers are active, and driven direct from the DAC.
 

BruceD

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Dec 13, 2013
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It was this system.
It was on the 2nd floor in the separate rooms, with other systems in the 100K-400K USD systems, and this room was the worst IMO, very flat and synthetic sounding. I believe the speakers are active, and driven direct from the DAC.

Hmmm I find that comment interesting --yes the Speakers are an Australian brand SGR--I have friends that auditioned others of their models and frankly found them boring --pity they have nice casework.

Seems the MSB folks --and I know Vince as a shrewd and competent operator--allowed these speakers such leeway in an important Display

Like I said Interesting :confused:

BruceD
 
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Priaptor

Member Sponsor
Jan 28, 2012
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Hmmm I find that comment interesting --yes the Speakers are an Australian brand SGR--I have friends that auditioned other their models and frankly found them boring --pity they have nice casework.

Seems the MSB folks --and I know Vince as a shrewd and competent operator--allowed these speakers such leeway in and important Display

Like I said Interesting :confused:

BruceD

I don’t think Vince had any input in this. I don’t believe he has/had anything to do with what happens in Munich.

As you noted Vince is VERY particular as to how the DAC is shown. I believe the producer of those speakers at Munich also OEM MSB’s modified racks and maybe why they showed together in Munich.
 

NorthStar

Member
Feb 8, 2011
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The day I thought would never come has arrived. My trusty dCS /Aurender front end (DAC, Clock, Upsampler, Aurender W20) has been bested by the......MSB Select II DAC. Mike Bovaird of Suncoast Audio lent me his demo unit for the weekend. I spent it comparing the two rigs and much to my surprise in my system, in my room, it wasn't even close. The Select II has more resolution, blacker background, sharper images and most surprising of all, the characteristics of a reference class pre-amp. I fed the DAC output direct to the D'Agostino mono blocks and wanted for nothing. Each instrument had greater weight than the Vivaldi output. I spent most of the weekend trying to find a set up where the Vivaldi would compete but I couldn't.

One DAC with simple inputs (ethernet, power) and simple outputs (balanced analogs to my D'Ags) did the job. No upsampling, no filter selections. Vanilla configuration that beat the pants off the system that was the culmination of 15 years of loyalty and upgrades from dCS. I feel guilty I like the MSB so much. In any case, the new Select shows up on Tuesday and I shall be cocooned in my room thereafter coming out only when absolutely necessary.

Set up: Select II DAC with MQA/Roon network renderer, balanced analog output and femto 33 clock module. Two power supply chassis's (one AC, on DC). D'Agostino M400 mono blocks. Magico M3 speakers. Lots of Transparent cabling.

Cincy

That's quite a vote of confidence in the MSB Dac.
Does it beat the Vivaldi 4 box when used with an SACD transport I wonder?

https://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-vivaldi-digital-playback-system
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
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540
I don’t think Vince had any input in this. I don’t believe he has/had anything to do with what happens in Munich.

As you noted Vince is VERY particular as to how the DAC is shown. I believe the producer of those speakers at Munich also OEM MSB’s modified racks and maybe why they showed together in Munich.

Ha yes P,--Before I execute my Spellchecker!:rolleyes: The company SGR, make an excellent range of Stands and ancillaries .

BruceD
 

Ventor

Well-Known Member
Jan 11, 2019
9
0
66
55
The day I thought would never come has arrived. My trusty dCS /Aurender front end (DAC, Clock, Upsampler, Aurender W20) has been bested by the......MSB Select II DAC. Mike Bovaird of Suncoast Audio lent me his demo unit for the weekend. I spent it comparing the two rigs and much to my surprise in my system, in my room, it wasn't even close. The Select II has more resolution, blacker background, sharper images and most surprising of all, the characteristics of a reference class pre-amp. I fed the DAC output direct to the D'Agostino mono blocks and wanted for nothing. Each instrument had greater weight than the Vivaldi output. I spent most of the weekend trying to find a set up where the Vivaldi would compete but I couldn't.

One DAC with simple inputs (ethernet, power) and simple outputs (balanced analogs to my D'Ags) did the job. No upsampling, no filter selections. Vanilla configuration that beat the pants off the system that was the culmination of 15 years of loyalty and upgrades from dCS. I feel guilty I like the MSB so much. In any case, the new Select shows up on Tuesday and I shall be cocooned in my room thereafter coming out only when absolutely necessary.

Set up: Select II DAC with MQA/Roon network renderer, balanced analog output and femto 33 clock module. Two power supply chassis's (one AC, on DC). D'Agostino M400 mono blocks. Magico M3 speakers. Lots of Transparent cabling.

Cincy
Cincy, were are you music files?, on a Roon Nucleus?, or NAS drive?, do you use Roon Core?, are you playing out the servere via ethernet , USB?, or spdiff, nice setup..
 

drunkenspyder

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2020
31
26
85
NorCal, USA
www.hammondraffetto.art
I hope I am not committing a newbie sin by resuscitating this thread. I happen to own both an MSB Select 2 DAC and a Vivaldi/Upsampler [Clock on the way but not here yet]. I stumbled on this thread while doing Reference Clock research, and thought I would add my paltry $.02. I've had the MSB in my headphone-only rack for 4 years now. It is, in a word, superb; I have never heard anything better, and I worked my way through a lot of DACs. When it came time to upgrade my speaker system—which I listen to far less frequently—from the PSA Audio DirectStream, I thought about simply getting another MSB, but decided to listen a bit to other offerings, including dCS, Meitner, D'Agostino, Ayre, and Levinson [all pre-COVID lockdown]. I am a network audio guy, so capability comes first when weeding out the offerings, followed then by SQ. I know, that may sound heretical to some, but I refuse to have a "human interface computer" in my listening rooms [much prefer the NAS approach], and I have become quite a fan of Roon. Anyway, when all was said and done, I stumbled onto dCS through a Bartok audition as a bedroom-headphone-only source, and then started listening to the rest of the lineup. I ended up committing to Vivaldi, even though it is an 8-year-old product. Is it better than the MSB? No. Less? Not to my ears, but headphones and speakers are very different. Different? Decidedly. Zero regrets.
 
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drunkenspyder

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2020
31
26
85
NorCal, USA
www.hammondraffetto.art
Peter, thanks; I have not swapped either DAC. However, I do have a Mjolnir Carbon electrostat amp in my living room where the Vivaldi is. I am running a Stax 007 Mk2 on it right now and listening there. I have not done enough listening yet to validate any comparison, but it sounds very good. I will want to use the 009S as well. There is s T2 in the headphone rack, which when combined with the MSB, makes a pretty wonderful TOTL headphone combo, though it is currently being challenged by the RAAL HSA-1a/SR1a combo.

Greg
 

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