Not much love for idlers??
- Thread starter bazelio
- Start date
Thanks. Also posting a PTP link http://zero-distortion.org/ptp-lenco-12-and-nottingham-dais/
However, in a later side by side compare between PTP and a low torque suspended DD called STST Motus II from Germany at Anamighty sound, a fantastic vinyl services shop in Paris, the ST ST was better in all aspects. Retail is 7k euro as opposed to almost 3 for PTP.
I think most compares of drive types happen between tables of differing levels, i.e. Lesser belt vs better direct or vice versa.
Very few would have done a compare between kodo/nvs level directs and equivalent belts and idlers.
At David's, each TT has a very unique sound, though I am not sure if that is a drive type. He will know. But the Thorens reference and AS and techdas differ as much from each other as they do from EMT.
Comparing Pluto and Feickert firebird to Reed, Ron and I both found the Reed lagged a lot.
I have always liked the Schopper TD 124 though while it will be better than some expensive tables, there will be many expensive tables better than it.
If I had to choose on a budget, I will take an old restored idler like the schopper.
If I could go for more, I will almost certainly end up belt but would like to compare to either the Kodo or the NVS. Belt drives also have a lot of flavors at high quality.
So yes, I don't think I can hear a drive type, so I would rather go with the implementation. I also find all this torque etc theory quite distracting from identifying what sounds better and what doesn't.
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When you say idlers you realize that in our context you're talking about fewer makers with valid designs than you have fingers on one hand, with a total of 6 or 7 models the rest are junk. It's not an easy design to execute properly and in reality there's only one true high end idler, EMT 927.
There are many belt drives with better Prat and far superior sonic qualities than your good classic idler, ie EMT 930, 301/401, Lenco L75. Only this few and if you push it the TD124 & a couple of Fairchild rumblers define the good idler category. EMT 927 is way, way, way beyond the good idler level it's a true legend and IMO still the Reference, the AS-2000 is in that class and yes in my biased opinion it matches 927's sound and even surpasses it.
david
I hope to have the Reed for in house demo soon to compare to Transrotor Orion, Yamaha GT-2000, Luxman PD-444, Acoustic Signature Challenger (I think) and a refurbished/replinted Lenco L75. I have heard the Firebird and it is good but I had a three motor Voyd in the past (with Helius Cyalene arm) that I felt allowed too much motor intrusion but was superbly dynamic. As for Pluto, haven't heard any other their TTs.
As compared to what Brad? I can't generalize when there are so many levels of restoration and customization with some costing tens of thousands, it all depends on the individual unit and who did the work and made the plinth. IME there's a limit to what you can and should do with a Lenco or Garrard restore beyond that it's an exercise in futility and a money pit. If you keep it reasonable and do things properly you'll have a great music player that will bring you joy for many years to come without breaking the bank.
david
Edit- This might answer your question a bit better, leaving customization aside for me Garrard 401 is the best sounding machine in this group as a starting point.
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Sold off my other turntables after getting my Artisan Fidelity 301. My favorite for Jazz and Rock. I don't listen to Classical but I would imagine a belt drive would be better suited.
At that price the obvious alternative/companion is the Micro Seiki RX-5000 or even the RX-1500 with the gun metal platter. You can go up the MS models with very big gains but IMO you're maxed out with these idlers by $10k, of course that's if the plinths deliver as promised.
david
Micro Seiki is only sold second hand now, right? Are there any restoration companies like there are for idlers?
I always feel like David makes things look really grimm for turntables unless you have an awful lot of money to throw at them.
I always feel like David makes things look really grimm for turntables unless you have an awful lot of money to throw at them.
Ok well find a recommendation by him for under $10k or $5k that is in production, give me the post link.
Actually the opposite, I always maintained that you get great tts arms and cartridges at relative bargain prices, SME 3009r/3010r & 3012-r are perfect examples. Always recommended the 301/401 and the two Micros can still be found for less than $10k, RX-1500's model are around $5k, but I'm sure by the I click "Post" prices would have increased by two fold
!Micro Seiko tables are complete designs and don't need plinths, bearings are sealed mostly need cleaning up and service, all damaged parts can be machined, a good number of people are providing this service. The motors are generally still good but need to be verified, somethings can be fixe and some not.
david
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