Not much love for idlers??

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
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Bangkok
I suspect that the 927 is Nadal, the greatest of all time on clay. The AS2000 is Federer, the greatest of all time. Tang will soon be able to report on the difference.

Now you make me thinking McEnroe for Kronos Peter. Very flamboyant, quick, freestyle, sharp, energetic but never composed, brute force and solid. The 927 is Federer not Nadal though.

Tang:)
 

Fsonicsmith

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2015
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Eg1DZdkVTP6RcyEjH5hdcg.jpg

Here are pics of my re-built TD124 with a Reed 3P Cocobolo arm. Greg Metz of STS/ClassicThorens just outside of Nashville TN did the work. Greg is like a Swiss watchmaker in his attention to detail. He actually went to Switzerland and studied how to rebuild Thorens tables under a former Thorens engineer. The chassis was stripped down to bare metal and repainted. Improved motor mounts, an AudioSilente idler wheel, and new chassis wiring were installed. But most important, the motor was rebuilt into what Greg calls a "super motor" with more powerful brushes resulting in higher torque and Greg added a spindle of his own design that is far more robust and smooth than the original (and much longer necessitating the higher plinth) and a super tall aluminum top platter of Greg's own design sits atop the original iron platter.
I picked the deck up on Saturday and yesterday installed a used twice-re-tipped Benz Glider while I wait for a new Cadenza Bronze to come in. I have never heard such spacious authoritative realistic sound in my listening room. This deck blows away my other analog rig, a VPI Prime and blows away my Aurender/AMR DP777 digital combo. Are idler wheels irrelevant in todays analogue world? No way. wzhRqWKEQoOndVVV7I2Viw.jpg
 

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spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,605
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E. England
You'll get no argument from me.
My idler/rim drive tt is a totally compelling performer, just provides a different more insistent perspective on the music.
An alternative belt drive tt would have to be SO compelling to swing me back.
 

Fsonicsmith

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2015
75
61
148
You'll get no argument from me.
My idler/rim drive tt is a totally compelling performer, just provides a different more insistent perspective on the music.
An alternative belt drive tt would have to be SO compelling to swing me back.

I need more time to get totally re-acquainted with my TD124 but it used to have a VPI 9T on it and now it has the radically different and obviously far superior Reed 3P, and I can already tell that they compliment each other. The "more insistent" character that you mention-and one that I totally understand and agree with-gets mellowed out in a very good way with the Reed arm. Yesterday after getting the Benz mounted and aligned, I played two records, Jason Isbell's "The Nashville Sound" and the re-mastered version of "Let it Bleed". Jason Isbell's voice has never sounded so life-like. There were shades of breathiness (not really a word) and tone in his singing that had been glossed over or just not dug out of the grooves previously that had the hair on the back on my neck standing up. The second track on Let it Bleed, "Love in Vain" starts with acoustic guitar strumming that was startling in it's transparency and real tonality as if the guitar was there in my room clearly being strummed right in front of me. I have learned to listen for tone rather than for imaging, but I have never heard such fine imaging in my present system. The tautness of bass is the second most distinct improvement over the realistic tonality though. That thick top platter weighs 12 lbs on top of the 12 lbs or so of the cast iron sub-platter and they ride on a very sophisticated bearing-on-bearing spindle assembly that as I said, Greg designed and has built custom to his specs. So this is a hot-rodded TD124 and I just can't say enough good things about the Reed 3P. Besides it's incredible sound, the Reed is so easy to set up because of it's design with on-the-fly levers or screws easily accessible for every parameter other than tracking force (which has to be adjusted statically).
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
Have any of you heard of or tried a Hamlin idler TT? Apparently, despite the name this was a Japanese idler to compete with the Garrard 301.
 

morricab

Well-Known Member
Apr 25, 2014
9,391
4,988
978
Switzerland
I need more time to get totally re-acquainted with my TD124 but it used to have a VPI 9T on it and now it has the radically different and obviously far superior Reed 3P, and I can already tell that they compliment each other. The "more insistent" character that you mention-and one that I totally understand and agree with-gets mellowed out in a very good way with the Reed arm. Yesterday after getting the Benz mounted and aligned, I played two records, Jason Isbell's "The Nashville Sound" and the re-mastered version of "Let it Bleed". Jason Isbell's voice has never sounded so life-like. There were shades of breathiness (not really a word) and tone in his singing that had been glossed over or just not dug out of the grooves previously that had the hair on the back on my neck standing up. The second track on Let it Bleed, "Love in Vain" starts with acoustic guitar strumming that was startling in it's transparency and real tonality as if the guitar was there in my room clearly being strummed right in front of me. I have learned to listen for tone rather than for imaging, but I have never heard such fine imaging in my present system. The tautness of bass is the second most distinct improvement over the realistic tonality though. That thick top platter weighs 12 lbs on top of the 12 lbs or so of the cast iron sub-platter and they ride on a very sophisticated bearing-on-bearing spindle assembly that as I said, Greg designed and has built custom to his specs. So this is a hot-rodded TD124 and I just can't say enough good things about the Reed 3P. Besides it's incredible sound, the Reed is so easy to set up because of it's design with on-the-fly levers or screws easily accessible for every parameter other than tracking force (which has to be adjusted statically).

You should look into the Reed 3c Turntable that is not an idler exactly but a "friction drive" or rim drive...only it drives directly the rim of a subplatter and not the outside of the platter proper.
 

Fsonicsmith

Well-Known Member
Jun 25, 2015
75
61
148
I took a look. It is very impressive looking and I have no doubt it sounds as good as it looks. IIRC, the guy behind Reed tables and the the gentleman behind the Reed arms used to be partners and split-up a few years ago. But more to the point, as impressive looking as the 3C deck is, it is not for me. The analogy would be an aficionado of '57 Chevy's who has painstakingly restored and hot-rodded it being advised that he ought to look at the latest Corvette. They are both Chevy's and by most measures, the Corvette is the better performer but the aficionado of '57 Chevy's gets a great deal of joy and satisfaction out of the tangible and intangible aspects of the '57. There is a certain classic look and feel (the tangible), but also a certain gestalt and history (the intangible) to the '57 that is completely lacking in the latest rendition of the Corvette. Let me shift to houses and architecture as my second and last analogy-one man might find complete happiness in a Frank Lloyd Wright house of modest size perfectly situated on a scenic ravine while another prefers a modern mansion in Beverly Hills. The latter may have ten times the size and ten times the market value but be anathema to the sensibilities of the former's owner.
 

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