Zero Distortion: Brinkmann Balance

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
No, im stating put. My analog rig is good enough for my listening preferences.

Id also have to hear the SP10r in my rig which is difficult. Im not certain it outperforms Brinkmann DD.

+1. Brinkmann seriously has his head screwed on. He refuses to do this slam bang fake dynamics with lack of tone or balance many more courier modern TTs are doing (not referring to sp10r as haven't heard it).

I can see why brinkmann can sound boring to some.
 

cyclopse

Member
Jul 25, 2016
51
3
8
The Balance is covered here and in the other TT shootout thread posted

http://zero-distortion.org/brinkmann-balance-2/

I first heard the Brinkmann Balance (BB) with Jan Allaerts Boron mk2 and the FM Acoustics electronics with the big Zellaton and the Stenheim Alumine 5, as reported here. I then decided I would break down the elements of the analog set up, given it was one of the top analog set ups I had heard. I bought the Allaerts, and then compared the Allaerts Boron mk2 to the Allaerts Finish MC Gold, Top Wing Red Sparrow, and a bespoke cart (report still to be published). I also heard the FM 123 with Art 1000 and the 122 with the Miyajima Madake at Vertere’s.

I then decided to go overboard on the balance. I heard:

  1. Brinkmann Balance with Decca London Reference, FR 66s with Arche headshell, Allnic H300v and all Allnic gear with Avalon Compass at Howard’s. Also rotated SPU synergy, Koetsu Jade with Diamond Cantilever, FR 7Fz, and Zu Denon 103. I will also take my Lampi to compare here in the future.
  2. Brinkmann Balance at Denis’ (dcc on WBF and Audionirvana) with Transfiguration Proteus, Allnic H3000v (KR Audio recti), into Focus Audio Maestro D’appolito with Krell electronics, TAD CD/dac, Studer tape deck
  3. A shootout between Brinkmann Balance, Lagrange, Techdas AF3, GP Monaco 1.5, and Technics sp10 mk2 as documented here

I recognise this system from dealer tweets of the system.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,139
478
Hold on a minute Ked, you were in the Vox room with me when the Fuuga/Kuzma/Monaco etc was playing.

You didn't stay long, though. So saying you didn't hear it is probably fair. Nor did I but I returned.

I covered it here.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
Hold on a minute Ked, you were in the Vox room with me when the Fuuga/Kuzma/Monaco etc was playing.

You didn't stay long, though. So saying you didn't hear it is probably fair. Nor did I but I returned.

I covered it here.

Justin, when I was with you, the TT was not playing. If you remember, I said why is this sounding like a CD? Then you went closer and had a look, and the cartridge was above the LP and not into the groove, and it was indeed the CD that was playing. I was not there when the TT was playing.
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,139
478
Justin, when I was with you, the TT was not playing. If you remember, I said why is this sounding like a CD? Then you went closer and had a look, and the cartridge was above the LP and not into the groove, and it was indeed the CD that was playing. I was not there when the TT was playing.

Actually, you are right. My bad.
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London

PeterA

Well-Known Member
Dec 6, 2011
12,522
10,687
3,515
USA
Justin, when I was with you, the TT was not playing. If you remember, I said why is this sounding like a CD? Then you went closer and had a look, and the cartridge was above the LP and not into the groove, and it was indeed the CD that was playing. I was not there when the TT was playing.

This is a very provocative comment. It seems that you could very quickly hear that the sound was not vinyl but digital. Was that because of a lack of analog noise or something else? What attribute made it sound like a CD?
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,438
13,468
2,710
London
This is a very provocative comment. It seems that you could very quickly hear that the sound was not vinyl but digital. Was that because of a lack of analog noise or something else? What attribute made it sound like a CD?

It was lack of analog. But it was just a remark, an instinct, the remark was made on walking in, from further away near the door. The TT was rotating with the cart on the vinyl. Only after Justin walked closer did he realize it was not touching the groove, just hanging there.
 

awsmone

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2014
1,616
513
435
Canberra Australia
It was lack of analog. But it was just a remark, an instinct, the remark was made on walking in, from further away near the door. The TT was rotating with the cart on the vinyl. Only after Justin walked closer did he realize it was not touching the groove, just hanging there.

Aha

I have a friend who likes to do that pretend ......to play a record but actually play a CD and see what people say

You wiould be amazed how many people say oh how greats this vinyl ;)

On an aside, there is some thought that the noise of vinyl enhances certain frequencies or masks them, which is why CD seems cold as there is so little noise in comparison .
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,602
5,411
1,278
E. England
I’ll freely confess I went to a product launch demo 20 years ago at the height of my tirade against cd. Music was playing w surface noise reasonably prominent. I opined to my mate how great vinyl was despite all that pop and crackle, only to embarrassingly discover a cd was playing, one recorded w surface noise. Yowza!
 

Zero000

Well-Known Member
Jul 28, 2014
2,985
1,139
478
I never made any assertion to Kedar whether I thought it was a record or not. I was just thinking it was digital, and Ked mentioned it, so I walked over to make sure. We had been wondering about the cartridge and asked what it was, if I remember correctly. I certainly walked out with a Fuuga leaflet.

Lack of surface noise is the sure clue as Kevin is always playing classical, so it seems, and there was no surface noise. I often wonder how classical fans can cope with vinyl as much classical material contains quiet parts for prolonged periods sometimes, and it can get swamped by noise on vinyl.

Now rock, pop, reggae etc I understand on vinyl, but classical? I couldn't cope with it on quieter pieces, especially with sub par vinyl. Louder pieces then fine I suppose, but I just don't normally listen to it, so I'm generally fine when using vinyl, which is rare these days.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,602
5,411
1,278
E. England
You anti lp guys are such soft touches .
Surface noise, just get past it.
Now digital hash, that’s something to REALLY object to .
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,777
6,818
1,400
the Upper Midwest
Thanks Tima. I certainly heard the GPA 2.0 do things my Brinkmann Le Grange does not do - Roy’s comment about “the competition sounding rounded, blurred and overweight” is interesting. While I wouldnt describe my Brinkmann as “overweight” it does not have the dynamics of the GPA nor the ability to lock instruments in space with such precision based on what I heard in Munich. I was seriously impressed. My reservation about the GPA2.0 is whether I would perceive it as too lean in the mid bass...I do like a fleshed out authoritive sound (listening preferences are rock and jazz) and am wondering whether the GPA would be a step back in this area v the Brinkmann? As someone who is familiar with both the 1.5 and 2.0 I would be really interested in your impressions of how the 2.0 compares with the 1.5 in terms of presenting the mid bass and overall perceived slam/weight of sound. Many thanks and regards

Hi stsxerses - with the Monaco 2.0, mid-bass is authoritative and tonally rich from my Alexia series 2s. Compared to the Monaco v1.5, the v2.0 exhibits less harmonic 'fuzz' on bass notes (and most notes) - that bit of blur or cottony scrim or EL34-like overhang or lack of tightness that can come across as slowness or 'uncertainty' to a note as if, say a string, is vibrating to long - in the absence of tight time control across its brief life. I'm pretty much convinced the better a speaker's cohrence the better one can appreciate what the Monaco 2 is doing.

Though likely outside your music repetoire, a great piece to hear differences is the opening of Bernstein's Mahler 2 symphony featuring the bass section of the NY Philharmonic - the attack and weight of a repeated 5-note phrase by the entire bass section is stunning with a sense of grip and controlled force. Or as noted in my write-up on the v2.0, Ray Brown's bass and Duke Ellington piano on This Ones' For Blanton were utterly natural - as close to a live performance as I've experienced. The effect is not what you'd get from different electronics, but from a better source signal, from the transducers, from a time accurate source and a time accurate speaker.

The v1.5 is an excellent 'table, but in terms of dynamics, musical vivacity, any attribute related to dimension and space, and tonal character, the v2.0 is in a different league altogether. Played back-to-back, the v2.0's effect is immediate, not subtle and where I noticed it first was in the dynamics, weight and tonal character in the lower mids and upper bass. I thought I had a handle on timing related attributes but I haven't quite parsed out the relationship with dynamics - maybe someone has a theory on this though regardless the explanation the effect is very real.

One thing I noticed about the 1.5 is that the sense of musical weight can vary somewhat depending on clamp pressure. I have no way of knowing but I'll speculate this may be one of the areas where Fremer got it wrong in his review of the 1.0. The v2.0s clamp lights a small LED when proper clamp pressure is reached which makes it something of a no-brainer for me. I'll also comment that the Monaco deserves location on a decent platform; I've been experimenting and while I have not reached a firm conclusion, its performance improves with isolation.

If my comments here don't address your questions, let me know.
 

stsxerses

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2018
23
11
108
Hi stsxerses - with the Monaco 2.0, mid-bass is authoritative and tonally rich from my Alexia series 2s. Compared to the Monaco v1.5, the v2.0 exhibits less harmonic 'fuzz' on bass notes (and most notes) - that bit of blur or cottony scrim or EL34-like overhang or lack of tightness that can come across as slowness or 'uncertainty' to a note as if, say a string, is vibrating to long - in the absence of tight time control across its brief life. I'm pretty much convinced the better a speaker's cohrence the better one can appreciate what the Monaco 2 is doing.

Though likely outside your music repetoire, a great piece to hear differences is the opening of Bernstein's Mahler 2 symphony featuring the bass section of the NY Philharmonic - the attack and weight of a repeated 5-note phrase by the entire bass section is stunning with a sense of grip and controlled force. Or as noted in my write-up on the v2.0, Ray Brown's bass and Duke Ellington piano on This Ones' For Blanton were utterly natural - as close to a live performance as I've experienced. The effect is not what you'd get from different electronics, but from a better source signal, from the transducers, from a time accurate source and a time accurate speaker.

The v1.5 is an excellent 'table, but in terms of dynamics, musical vivacity, any attribute related to dimension and space, and tonal character, the v2.0 is in a different league altogether. Played back-to-back, the v2.0's effect is immediate, not subtle and where I noticed it first was in the dynamics, weight and tonal character in the lower mids and upper bass. I thought I had a handle on timing related attributes but I haven't quite parsed out the relationship with dynamics - maybe someone has a theory on this though regardless the explanation the effect is very real.

One thing I noticed about the 1.5 is that the sense of musical weight can vary somewhat depending on clamp pressure. I have no way of knowing but I'll speculate this may be one of the areas where Fremer got it wrong in his review of the 1.0. The v2.0s clamp lights a small LED when proper clamp pressure is reached which makes it something of a no-brainer for me. I'll also comment that the Monaco deserves location on a decent platform; I've been experimenting and while I have not reached a firm conclusion, its performance improves with isolation.

If my comments here don't address your questions, let me know.

Hi Tima thanks for taking the time to share your impressions of both TTs - much appreciated. Ive yet to see any negative reviews of the 2.0 whereas earlier iterations of the Monaco (1.0 and 1.5) seem to have generated quite polarised opinions - what interested me about Bonzo’s impressions were that he listened to the 1.5 (not the 1.0 reviewed by Fremer) and was comparing against the Brinkmann (a TT I am very familiar with). Its reassuring to read your comment about the weight and tonal characteristics of the 2.0 v the 1.5. I was also interested by your speculation that incorrect clamping pressure might have contributed to the negative impressions formed by Fremer. I do know from experience that playing around with the clamp to my Brinkmann (or not using it at all) can have a pretty significant impact on the sound but perhaps not enough to change the fundamental character of the TT. Regards
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,777
6,818
1,400
the Upper Midwest
Hi Tima thanks for taking the time to share your impressions of both TTs - much appreciated. Ive yet to see any negative reviews of the 2.0 whereas earlier iterations of the Monaco (1.0 and 1.5) seem to have generated quite polarised opinions - what interested me about Bonzo’s impressions were that he listened to the 1.5 (not the 1.0 reviewed by Fremer) and was comparing against the Brinkmann (a TT I am very familiar with). Its reassuring to read your comment about the weight and tonal characteristics of the 2.0 v the 1.5. I was also interested by your speculation that incorrect clamping pressure might have contributed to the negative impressions formed by Fremer. I do know from experience that playing around with the clamp to my Brinkmann (or not using it at all) can have a pretty significant impact on the sound but perhaps not enough to change the fundamental character of the TT. Regards

You are quite welcome. Fwiw, I've seen no negative or polarizing reviews of the v.1.5. If you have, i'd appreciate if you could give a pointer so I can read. My view on the clamp pressure came fom my own experiments with the v.1.5 - one can definitely alter the character of sound toward the poorer by misusing the clamp or the wrong durometer washer beneath he record.
 

stsxerses

Well-Known Member
Apr 5, 2018
23
11
108
You are quite welcome. Fwiw, I've seen no negative or polarizing reviews of the v.1.5. If you have, i'd appreciate if you could give a pointer so I can read. My view on the clamp pressure came fom my own experiments with the v.1.5 - one can definitely alter the character of sound toward the poorer by misusing the clamp or the wrong durometer washer beneath he record.

Hi I thought I saw a comment on one of the sites a few years back about the 1.5 being lean but I recall most comments being very favourable. The Munich show this year was the first time I had the opportunity to hear a GPA TT for myself and as previously mentioned I was seriously impressed...the fact that I was able to hear it in two completely different systems and rooms reinforces my belief that the GPA Monaco 2.0 is a very special TT
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing