Is a Lower Noise Floor, are "Blacker" Blacks, Consonant With the Music?

Ron Resnick · May 19, 2018

Many audiophiles strive to lower the noise floor of their systems by various means. Many audiophiles install elaborate electrical infrastructures such as dedicated sub-panels and dedicated electrical lines ("circuits") to improve power flow and to reduce the noise in the AC powering their components. Some audiophiles use balanced-power and isolation transformers (e.g., Equi-Tech, Torus) and power regenerators (e.g., PS Audio) and battery storage systems (e.g., Stromtank) to provide pure, noise-free power to their components. Many audiophiles use balanced interconnects in an effort to reduce noise and immunize the signal from sources of noise. Some audiophiles use special after-market grounding box components (e.g., Tripoint, Entreq, Nordost) to minimize ground noise issues and to prevent noise or interference from adulterating the audio signal and for other reasons.

Let's stipulate that these exertions succeed in lowering the noise floors of our systems, in eliminating electrical gremlins, in resisting EMI/RFI, in making "blacker" blacks.

But what have we accomplished musically? Is a cleaner, noise-scrubbed, more sterile signal consonant with reproducing the sounds of the music we hear in the concert hall or in the jazz club?

Is any of the naturalness or the richness or the organic-ness of live music removed, or is any of the visceral, emotional content of the music lost, even as "blacker" backgrounds and quieter systems are gained?

DSkip · May 19, 2018

Organic? Yes. The increased separation and presence each source has in the soundstage brings a more organic presentation.

The best analogy I've seen (can't remember who) compared the noise floor to being in an office building. When you go in, you get accustomed to the actual noise floor in the space. When the A/C cuts off, you have to reacclimate to the much lower noise floor. Instead of just hearing people on phones, now you hear actual conversations along with all the other ambient sounds that present itself in the office setting. You are aware that you are in a working office and can tell what business is done there at that point. The realism is injected into the setting, much like when the noise floor drops in our systems.

I haven't experienced any real shifts in tone when this happens, but more frequencies do tend to present themselves that seemed to be hidden prior.

Rodney Gold · May 19, 2018

I began with my room , got it down to 19db ambient noise floor without it being dead .. pointless reducing the system noise floor without being able to hear it ...

Empirical Audio · May 19, 2018

Lower noise floor (higher signal to noise ratio) is no different than lower distortion or improved dynamic range. All are desirable. More live sound is the result, particularly with live venue tracks.

I achieve low noise floor by eliminating all system ground-loops and powering my digital from a Plasmatron.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

Audiocrack · May 20, 2018

In all honesty I never fully understood the word black or blacker in this regard. Lowering the noisefloor - in my case in particular by using various top of the line Tripoint Audio components - means more silence and less distorsion. I could describe the benefits of this phenomenon of more silence / less distorsion with the usual audiophile descriptions like better transparency / dynamics, more speed / refinement / command, wider and deeper soundstage, etc. but for me the most important aspect boils down to the following: the various instruments and vocals just sound more real. Somehow our brains recognize very clearly that the musical reproduction or presentation in our listening rooms have become less mechanical, that is more natural. And in my view that is what our joint hobby is all about.

RogerD · May 20, 2018

You actually don’t now how clear the recording is until the hash is removed. The level of clarity should reveal a feeling of at the microphone or in the recording space. The noise floor level is too ambiguous, but the many degrees of clarity is a better gauge of SQ. I had to train myself how to recognize hash in the sound field and it’s effect on clarity. Realizing how to visualize in my minds eye how the music should sound at the microphone was a major step in perfecting overall system performance.
In reality,clarity is the only thing that matters. Making the distinction between noise floor and clarity is not a leap of faith,it is a learning process.

Audiophile Bill · May 20, 2018

RogerD said:
You actually don’t now how clear the recording is until the hash is removed. The level of clarity should reveal a feeling of at the microphone or in the recording space. The noise floor level is too ambiguous, but the many degrees of clarity is a better gauge of SQ. I had to train myself how to recognize hash in the sound field and it’s effect on clarity. Realizing how to visualize in my minds eye how the music should sound at the microphone was a major step in perfecting overall system performance.
In reality,clarity is the only thing that matters.

I concur with your reduction of hash comment, Roger.

Ron - removal of the EMI actually allows instruments to sound more organic / natural / real and contrary to your query in your last paragraph. This is especially noticeable in digital. One easy way to observe this is using a USB cable without 5v leg if your dac allows and compare it. I know you are analogue only (like me) but I contest it is still very important - you’ll notice what I call a cognitive ease in your listening when you go to town to reduce it.

That said, I am not saying that all the madness we indulge in to get there is worth it - some approaches can be deleterious. One example - some approaches to mains conditioning can reduce the liveliness of the system (but I think we all know that).

RogerD · May 20, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
I concur with your reduction of hash comment, Roger.

Ron - removal of the EMI actually allows instruments to sound more organic / natural / real and contrary to your query in your last paragraph. This is especially noticeable in digital. One easy way to observe this is using a USB cable without 5v leg if your dac allows and compare it. I know you are analogue only (like me) but I contest it is still very important - you’ll notice what I call a cognitive ease in your listening when you go to town to reduce it.

That said, I am not saying that all the madness we indulge in to get there is worth it - some approaches can be deleterious. One example - some approaches to mains conditioning can reduce the liveliness of the system (but I think we all know that).

Hi Bill, hope all is well.

Al M. · May 20, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
That said, I am not saying that all the madness we indulge in to get there is worth it - some approaches can be deleterious. One example - some approaches to mains conditioning can reduce the liveliness of the system (but I think we all know that).

Yes, an underappreciated problem. Audiophiles sometimes get caught up in the 'cleanness' of the sound, but forget to ask themselves if the music still communicates.

Overall though, I agree with the consensus that reduction of noise floor is a good thing.

audioguy · May 20, 2018

A lower noise floor also allows those very faint background sounds on the recording to become more audible -- and hence adds to the realism of the experience.

That said, I am not one who is willing to spend the money/effort to completely minimize noise floor. I may have to crank the volume up a bit to overcome some of the problem and that's good enough for me. Besides the room itself and isolation from external noise, when I switched to power regenerators, I got a "huge" (at least the audiophile definition of "huge") improvement in this area.

Joe Whip · May 20, 2018

With noise, you may not know what it is doing in your system until it is gone. If your room itself is also quiet, the improvement in your sound can be quite astonishing when you lower the eclectrical noise. Many, including my wife, have told me I spend too much time in jazz clubs, but since I have lowered the noise in my system, with live recordings, I am right there in the club. All that low level detail, really improves the you are there presentation. There is a lot of important musical detail that can get lost in the noise.

Mike Lavigne · May 20, 2018

there certainly are (1) electronics which trade musical completeness for low noise. and the line where is occurs is likely fluid and varies from person to person. for some (not me), it's as black and white as tubes and solid state. mostly tubes are viewed as adding musical content, and solid state is lower noise and more linear. then there is (2) resonance control, where some types of elimination of resonance is perceived to brighten the sound and not be musically friendly even though it might lower noise. there are (3) power grid treatments of various kinds that are viewed by some as either lowering dynamics or adjusting tonality or flow negatively while lowering noise. some (4) acoustical treatments can reduce reflective hash or control bass but again can also intrude on the musical energy. an (5) efficient enough speaker does have the potential to lower overall signal path noise too by allowing amplifiers to operate more benignly......but super efficient horns can go the other way and expose (bring noise otherwise un-noticed to the surface) noise too.

I cannot imagine any dispute that (6) lowering ambient noise intrusion has any actual negatives. so that one seems obviously only positive.

personally; getting the environmental, power grid and signal path noise to a minimum has been for me a full frontal assault. and i lump resonance control, ambient noise, and acoustical treatments into environmental. I've been attracted to electronics which have extremely low noise floors yet don't strangle the music. i moved my home to a place away from an urban environment, where i am not affected by outside ambient noise, and my room is in a separate building.

i do think that it's not a trivial challenge fanatically eliminating noise while not losing any musical connection. working through room tuning my wall treatments took months and months of trial and error, enjoying the increase in information but always making sure i was not then losing something. the Equi=tech + all the Furutech NCF + Tripoint + Entreq + Herzan + now Taiko all have been extreme steps down this path of lower noise and getting the environmental effects from intruding on the musical message. even my early jump into RTR tape was a search for lower noise and more direct musical connection. so media has a place in this discussion. if you are listening to MP3 over your computer speakers, then low noise is just not something with much relevance.

most recently I've completed the Taiko Audio process with the Tana active vibration control with the LPS's and the Daiza platforms under all my electronics. having all the other noise issues dealt with clears the way for these products to deal with the remaining distortion from resonance. it seems i'm listening in completely clear air. the noise floor is remarkably low, more than just lower noise there is an enhanced natural calmness, and the music is full and robust.

every visitor to my room comments on the crazy low noise floor, and i love what it does too. the background is not black, it's fully exposed ambient reality as captured by the recording. sometimes that is black. but always optimally complete as is musically appropriate.

PeterA · May 20, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
But what have we accomplished musically? Is a cleaner, noise-scrubbed, more sterile signal consonant with reproducing the sounds of the music we hear in the concert hall or in the jazz club?

I am struck by your use of the word "sterile". In some audio contexts, I think the term is used to describe a somewhat "lifeless" or unexciting sound. You already wrote "cleaner" in the same sentence, so what do you mean by this term here? Do you think all of these efforts to reduce the noise floor of one's system result in a more "sterile" sound? And is that a positive or a negative attribute?

andromedaaudio · May 20, 2018

I can understand where Ron is coming from, i never have been impressed by any external power conditioner until now.
Low noise is to me most importantly , no external noise entering the room
I ll always remember that Thick double glass door slide shut , and we spun a. CD in the all levinson. Avalon. System at my local dealer back then

Ron Resnick · May 20, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
. . . some approaches can be deleterious. One example - some approaches to mains conditioning can reduce the liveliness of the system (but I think we all know that).

What are some of the approaches which can reduce the liveliness of the system?

Ron Resnick · May 20, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
there certainly are (1) electronics which trade musical completeness for low noise. and the line where is occurs is likely fluid and varies from person to person. for some (not me), it's as black and white as tubes and solid state. mostly tubes are viewed as adding musical content, and solid state is lower noise and more linear. then there is (2) resonance control, where some types of elimination of resonance is perceived to brighten the sound and not be musically friendly even though it might lower noise. there are (3) power grid treatments of various kinds that are viewed by some as either lowering dynamics or adjusting tonality or flow negatively while lowering noise. some (4) acoustical treatments can reduce reflective hash or control bass but again can also intrude on the musical energy. an (5) efficient enough speaker does have the potential to lower overall signal path noise too by allowing amplifiers to operate more benignly......but super efficient horns can go the other way and expose (bring noise otherwise un-noticed to the surface) noise too.

I cannot imagine any dispute that (6) lowering ambient noise intrusion has any actual negatives. so that one seems obviously only positive.

personally; getting the environmental, power grid and signal path noise to a minimum has been for me a full frontal assault. and i lump resonance control, ambient noise, and acoustical treatments into environmental. I've been attracted to electronics which have extremely low noise floors yet don't strangle the music. i moved my home to a place away from an urban environment, where i am not affected by outside ambient noise, and my room is in a separate building.

i do think that it's not a trivial challenge fanatically eliminating noise while not losing any musical connection. working through room tuning my wall treatments took months and months of trial and error, enjoying the increase in information but always making sure i was not then losing something. the Equi=tech + all the Furutech NCF + Tripoint + Entreq + Herzan + now Taiko all have been extreme steps down this path of lower noise and getting the environmental effects from intruding on the musical message. even my early jump into RTR tape was a search for lower noise and more direct musical connection. so media has a place in this discussion. if you are listening to MP3 over your computer speakers, then low noise is just not something with much relevance.

most recently I've completed the Taiko Audio process with the Tana active vibration control with the LPS's and the Daiza platforms under all my electronics. having all the other noise issues dealt with clears the way for these products to deal with the remaining distortion from resonance. it seems i'm listening in completely clear air. the noise floor is remarkably low, more than just lower noise there is an enhanced natural calmness, and the music is full and robust.

every visitor to my room comments on the crazy low noise floor, and i love what it does too. the background is not black, it's fully exposed ambient reality as captured by the recording. sometimes that is black. but always optimally complete as is musically appropriate.

This was an interesting and comprehensive survey, Mike. Thank you.

The challenge is what you wrote in bold: reducing the noise level while not losing the musical connection.

Mike Lavigne · May 20, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
This was an interesting and comprehensive survey, Mike. Thank you.

The challenge is what you wrote in bold: reducing the noise level while not losing the musical connection.

you are most welcome, Ron.

it's not a simple subject. it's been a quest for me.

Ron Resnick · May 20, 2018

PeterA said:
I am struck by your use of the word "sterile". In some audio contexts, I think the term is used to describe a somewhat "lifeless" or unexciting sound. You already wrote "cleaner" in the same sentence, so what do you mean by this term here? Do you think all of these efforts to reduce the noise floor of one's system result in a more "sterile" sound? And is that a positive or a negative attribute?

I used “sterile” as a synonym for “clinical,” both perjorative terms in the context of this question (no one likes to think of his system as sounding “sterile”) to tweak the reader and to stimulate the discussion.

I do not necessarily think that any of these efforts (let alone “all” of these efforts) to reduce the noise floor of one's system result in a more "sterile" sound.

There is a contrary view that balanced power devices sacrifice some “musicality,” and that single-ended interconnects sound more natural than balanced interconnects. I don’t know if this is true, but, if it is true, I suspect it has something to do with the balancing action in each case reducing even order harmonic information at the same time it reduces common mode noise.

Ron Resnick · May 20, 2018

Mike Lavigne said:
you are most welcome, Ron.

it's not a simple subject. it's been a quest for me.

A very successful quest!

Audiophile Bill · May 20, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
What are some of the approaches which can reduce the liveliness of the system?

Using mains conditioners that are unable to supply the instantaneous current requirements of the larger solid state amps is an example Ron. Another is using balanced wiring when the component is not properly balanced (just has XLR sockets) - I know some will contest this but this is my experience. Using cables that are built with characteristics to tailor the sound such as high inductance.

Is a Lower Noise Floor, are "Blacker" Blacks, Consonant With the Music?

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