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Thread: Which is Better Sound From High Power: Single Tube SET or Parallel Tube SET?

  1. #11
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    Single-tube SET amps have the advantage that there is no compensation for tubes in parallel. Just like transistors, when you have support circuits that force the two or more active devices to share the current, distortions occur. The output curves for any two devices are not exactly the same, particularly tubes.

    Some output tube types are better than others, but not so much because of the size, voltage or current or the fact that it was used for RF transmitter. The SQ of these is more a function of the manufacturer that fabricated the tube, the materials used, the design and whether it was "binned" for different performance levels. Just like most tubes, the performance is related to all of these factors. Some tube types that were only made in the USA by RCA, Sylvania, etc.. don't perform as well as similar but different tube types made in Germany or USSR/Russia for instance. These US tubes were primarily designed for HIFI gear and TV's. This is why it is critical when designing tube equipment to be familiar with the high-performance tubes of different types available in Europe and Asia, so you can pick optimum types for each circuit. A case in point is US 12AT7 12AX7 6SN7 versus German 6922 or Russian military 6N8S. Many Russian tubes were used in aircraft and Nuclear power plants until almost 1990. They had to be designed to be really durable and very high-performance at the same time, so these can be amazing for audio.

    Steve N.
    Empirical Audio
    Steve Nugent, owner and designer
    Empirical Audio
    http://www.empiricalaudio.com
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    modded Router powered by Dynamo LPS -> 0.5m Platinum Wireworld CAT8 cable -> EMO EN-70e isolator -> 2.0m Platinum Wireworld CAT8 cable ->
    Empirical Audio Overdrive SX DAC with Ethernet interface ->
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    Custom modded Arte Forma SET Due Volte monoblocks ->
    Vapor Audio Nimbus speakers

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by andromedaaudio View Post
    I never got the SET thing , i never owned a lamm, so who knows.
    What i do believe is that in the right speaker amp match tubes are a faster amplyfing device .
    From all the SS i ve owned id say the main factor is is that they are slower
    If they are slower, the amps don't have good power delivery to the tubes or they have the wrong tubes in the sockets. Tubes that come with amps are usually sub-par in order to make them more affordable. The first thing you do is mod the amps and replace all the tubes.

    Steve N.
    Empirical Audio
    Steve Nugent, owner and designer
    Empirical Audio
    http://www.empiricalaudio.com
    Manufacturer of low-jitter digital interfaces and DAC's since 1996

    System:
    modded Router powered by Dynamo LPS -> 0.5m Platinum Wireworld CAT8 cable -> EMO EN-70e isolator -> 2.0m Platinum Wireworld CAT8 cable ->
    Empirical Audio Overdrive SX DAC with Ethernet interface ->
    Empirical Audio Final Drive analog transformer buffer ->
    Custom modded Arte Forma SET Due Volte monoblocks ->
    Vapor Audio Nimbus speakers

  3. #13
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] andromedaaudio's Avatar
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    Please Read my post first , lol

  4. #14
    Site Founder And Administrator Ron Resnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KeithR View Post
    . . .

    ps. I loved that Dueventi SEP as well - one of the best bargains in audio. wish i would have kept mine!
    It is 20 watts? On what speakers did you use it?
    Mono and Stereo - Senior Contributing Reviewer

    turntable: American Sound AS-2000; tonearms: SME 3012R, Schröder LT; cartridges: ZYX UNIverse Premium X-SB2, Air Tight Opus-1; tape: Studer A820 Mk II; phono stage: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 power supplies; line stage: VTL TL-7.5 Series III; amplifier: VTL Siegfried Series II; loudspeaker: Gryphon Pendragon; cables: MasterBuilt Ultra; stands: Herzan + Taiko Tana + Evo LPS for Io, custom for turntable, Stacore Basic+ for amps; power: Benjamin Electric subpanel, JPS in-wall wire, Furutech NCF outlets, Torus AVR60BAL; room: 19' wide X 24' long X 14' tall; acoustic treatment: SoundSense A.T.I. + Lumitex drapes + Vibramat, ASC IsoThermal Tube Traps; tweaks: Shakti Stones, Shun Mooks

  5. #15
    Site Founder And Administrator Ron Resnick's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddk View Post
    Distortion! You give up the sonic purity of a SET.

    . . .
    But which way does that cut? Some would argue that, especially in the lower frequencies, a single tube SET exhibits high distortion.
    Mono and Stereo - Senior Contributing Reviewer

    turntable: American Sound AS-2000; tonearms: SME 3012R, Schröder LT; cartridges: ZYX UNIverse Premium X-SB2, Air Tight Opus-1; tape: Studer A820 Mk II; phono stage: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 power supplies; line stage: VTL TL-7.5 Series III; amplifier: VTL Siegfried Series II; loudspeaker: Gryphon Pendragon; cables: MasterBuilt Ultra; stands: Herzan + Taiko Tana + Evo LPS for Io, custom for turntable, Stacore Basic+ for amps; power: Benjamin Electric subpanel, JPS in-wall wire, Furutech NCF outlets, Torus AVR60BAL; room: 19' wide X 24' long X 14' tall; acoustic treatment: SoundSense A.T.I. + Lumitex drapes + Vibramat, ASC IsoThermal Tube Traps; tweaks: Shakti Stones, Shun Mooks

  6. #16
    Site Founder And Administrator Ron Resnick's Avatar
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    I think one of us should buy the MastersounD PF-100 PSET and the AM Audio 833S Ultima SET and compare them directly. Or, for a more apples to apples comparison, someone should buy the four 845 tube PF-100 and a single 845 tube amp by MastersounD.

    Tang?


    * * *


    PS: Okay, I admit it. I want a MastersounD PF-100 AND an AM Audio 833S Ultima!
    Mono and Stereo - Senior Contributing Reviewer

    turntable: American Sound AS-2000; tonearms: SME 3012R, Schröder LT; cartridges: ZYX UNIverse Premium X-SB2, Air Tight Opus-1; tape: Studer A820 Mk II; phono stage: Aesthetix Io Eclipse with 2 power supplies; line stage: VTL TL-7.5 Series III; amplifier: VTL Siegfried Series II; loudspeaker: Gryphon Pendragon; cables: MasterBuilt Ultra; stands: Herzan + Taiko Tana + Evo LPS for Io, custom for turntable, Stacore Basic+ for amps; power: Benjamin Electric subpanel, JPS in-wall wire, Furutech NCF outlets, Torus AVR60BAL; room: 19' wide X 24' long X 14' tall; acoustic treatment: SoundSense A.T.I. + Lumitex drapes + Vibramat, ASC IsoThermal Tube Traps; tweaks: Shakti Stones, Shun Mooks

  7. #17
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    Hi Ron

    i had the AM in my system for a demo a year or two ago. In my system it was very unimpressive. If i had taken that as the sound of SET then i would have given up there and then.

    In my system at the time it sounded very detailed and fast, lean and with an exposed top end. It didnt sit well with me.Name:  am amp.jpg
Views: 42
Size:  1.22 MB

  8. #18
    VIP/Donor [VIP/Donor] andromedaaudio's Avatar
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    If you re speakers are to low sensivity and or have a rather difficult low imp curve , the amps and certainly SET tube Amps have problems controlling your woofers.
    Results in hearing no bass , and because a natural reaction is to increase the volume you end up with a enhanced mid treble sound.

    It could be also the case here

  9. #19
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    u may be right there ...... but i ended up with these amps and they have the best bass ive ever had in my room - same speakers - PSET though, not SET
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  10. #20
    Hello gents,

    I can’t nor will I try to offer any attempt at answering the question directly, as I’ve never compared a SET of a certain wattage with that of a PSET of the same wattage, given the variables between the two are too great.

    I can say this:

    I have never liked big bottle tubes, including the 805, 845, 211, GM70 and 833 - at least not in any of the implementations I heard them.

    I have also never liked PSETs using any tube (big or small), or push-pull amps for that matter (unless we’re talking guitar amps).

    So despite a well-entrenched bias against big bottle tubes and parallel circuits in general, and a growing conviction that no big bottle amp or parallel topology would ever meet my criteria for ownership, that all changed when I heard an amp that used a tube that was new to me, the RCA 813, a big bottle tube of which two were used in parallel, driven by a single RCA 814. That amp is now my favourite by far.

    That’s not to say I’ve changed my mind about big bottles or parallel circuits in general. Just that single variables in isolation usually tell us nothing about how those variables react and interact when brought together. Again, implementation trumps topology, and topology trumps parts selection, at least in my experience.

    Best,

    853guy
    "Proyecto realizado para la cátedra Longinotti II de tipografía. 2016. Editorial"; Rocio Gomez.
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    "In a time of drastic change it is the learners who inherit the future. The learned usually find themselves equipped to live in a world that no longer exists." Hoffer, Eric. Reflections on the Human Condition. (Aphorism 32). 1973

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