The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?

bonzo75 · Jun 14, 2018

andromedaaudio said:
I ve heard the usual magnepan , martin logan , audiostatic ,but not their large topmodels .
Horns : Blumenhofer big 60 K model , westminster big 40 K model , avantgarde not the big model , zingali , klipsch, JBL various studio/pa designs and some more i forgot .
See i only remember gear i like, from horns not even one i liked , more or less acceptable was may be the big klipsch , i think if you would do a independant Frequency response check on them , you d get a hart attack with most lol .
Completely coloured loudspeakers tailored to certain kinds of music , but this is off course my only dum opinion.

There was one active PA loudspeaker i liked though it was in an outside environment open space at a carshow and i thought it was quit nice , no audiophile thing

I don't like any of those horns either. I would take cones over them. Which westminster, btw - you are not referring to Tannoy Westminster?

andromedaaudio · Jun 14, 2018

I think it was yes , i think it was around 45 K , i must say it was at a show and not placed optimally , but nontheless

bonzo75 · Jun 14, 2018

Well at least you will agree all those "horns" were very different sounding from each other

andromedaaudio · Jun 14, 2018

bonzo75 said:
Well at least you will agree all those "horns" were very different sounding from each other

Look good audiotransducers sound alike , if one sounds very different from each other there is something wrong .
Thats why a magico S 5 doesnt sound completely different from an S 5 mk 2 or a wp 7 from a sasha , if it would be the case that would be a problem.
Neutrality/tonally neutral is boring in a way , but pleases in the long run.

I mean staying the same as compared in its class , so horn compared to another horn of the same size , i know off course a horn sounds in principal different from a cone or a ribbon, a large cone system is different from a small 2 way system for example

bonzo75 · Jun 14, 2018

Sorry...i don't like any of those horns you mention... But they all sound different. That was my point

andromedaaudio · Jun 14, 2018

Sure , that these sounded different as well i agree

infinitely baffled · Jun 14, 2018

Just spoken with Alain.
He loves both the Soundlab electrostats and Apogee ribbons, but believes i would kill either in about a week due to the high spls i prefer....as alluded to by the general
So right speakers, wrong customer

infinitely baffled · Jun 14, 2018

morricab said:
Really large panels can have phenomenal bass and dynamics. Martin Logans never did bass really (even the old CLS models) because curving the panel restricts motion. SoundLab does it differently where the frame is curved but each "cell" of the foil is flat. My old Acoustat Spectra 4400 had some of the best, most impactful bass I have ever heard even to this day. Even after having systems like the Infiinity IRS Beta, where I had 4 x 12 inch servo controlled woofers per channel. Amps to drive Soundlabs is another story...a big Boulder amp might not be the ticket in any event...

What makes you feel that a Boulder amp might not be suitable?

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

infinitely baffled said:
Just spoken with Alain.
He loves both the Soundlab electrostats and Apogee ribbons, but believes i would kill either in about a week due to the high spls i prefer....as alluded to by the general
So right speakers, wrong customer

Well in the case of the Grand he is talking absolute rubbish, with all due respect, if he was talking about that Apogee, which I doubt. That speaker will play loud, without any panel worries, since the panel doesn't go below 70Hz. It will crucify you with 120DB.

The issue you would have with a custom built Duetta in a very large room playing loud is the volume constraint. The bass panel, though it will drop to much lower frequency than specified for a standard Duetta in room, does have excursion limitations when trying to play super high bass content tracks at very high SPL.

That said, Full Range will do a lot better than Duetta.

In a smallish room Duetta will do high bass content tracks well, to about 95DB, which is loud enough for me.

TBH I think you'd really seriously like Trios with basshorns. They will play super seriously loud without any signs of stress, and totally swap you with excellent generous bass. IMHO a Trio setup will kill any Focal in existence for the qualities I have just mentioned.

For you I would say two layers of bass horns and you will have a world class reproducer of the kind of music you like. There isn't much that will do it better in conventional hi-fi space.

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

I think what I am saying about Trios is well founded, as I like similar bass heavy content music like you. So I know, LOL.

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

bonzo75 said:
You can then just look at trios with bass horns and add bass horns depending on your bass needs. But you won't get conal excursion

I think what Ked meant is it won't sound like the field coil bass unit in the Focal Grand Utopia driven by say the Naim Statement amps i.e. you won't get cone impact. That's true, the bass horns will radiate bass in a more diffuse fashion, on a much grander scale, but I believe bass horn bass is quite superior to that Focal speaker. The cone in the Focal Grand Utopia is quite heavy, and has a mild plastic colouration to it IMHO. It can't track bass with the articulation of a decent pair of Apogee panels, but it sure will play loud.

Audiophile Bill · Jun 15, 2018

User211 said:
Well in the case of the Grand he is talking absolute rubbish, with all due respect, if he was talking about that Apogee, which I doubt. That speaker will play loud, without any panel worries, since the panel doesn't go below 70Hz. It will crucify you with 120DB.

The issue you would have with a custom built Duetta in a very large room playing loud is the volume constraint. The bass panel, though it will drop to much lower frequency than specified for a standard Duetta in room, does have excursion limitations when trying to play super high bass content tracks at very high SPL.

That said, Full Range will do a lot better than Duetta.

In a smallish room Duetta will do high bass content tracks well, to about 95DB, which is loud enough for me.

TBH I think you'd really seriously like Trios with basshorns. They will play super seriously loud without any signs of stress, and totally swap you with excellent generous bass. IMHO a Trio setup will kill any Focal in existence for the qualities I have just mentioned.

For you I would say two layers of bass horns and you will have a world class reproducer of the kind of music you like. There isn't much that will do it better in conventional hi-fi space.

Hi Justin,

Please can you explain the maths to me as to how a Grand can do 120db. I know the Old marketing blurb says so but they specify 84db which is unlikely to be the case using musical content as almost all manufacturers over state this but let’s goce benefit of the doubt. I am at 27,000 watts for 120db at 12 feet using 2 speakers placed in free space (as they need)....

Audiophile Bill · Jun 15, 2018

User211 said:
I think what I am saying about Trios is well founded, as I like similar bass heavy content music like you. So I know, LOL.

Agree that Trios make sense for IB’s application.

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

Audiophile Bill said:
Hi Justin,

Please can you explain the maths to me as to how a Grand can do 120db. I know the Old marketing blurb says so but they specify 84db which is unlikely to be the case using musical content as almost all manufacturers over state this but let’s goce benefit of the doubt. I am at 27,000 watts for 120db at 12 feet using 2 speakers placed in free space (as they need)....

Well it is a peak reading, and dipole output drops far less over distance than a conventional loudspeaker.

There's no way it will emit 120 DB over the full frequency range continuously.

Specs are ambiguously bullshit in a lot of cases. But I am sure the speaker will play really very much louder than full range ribbon Apogees as the constraint on the mid bass panel loudness has effectively been very much relieved by the 70Hz drop off. So it can manage much higher SPL for the given excursion limit.

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

BTW you should see my bass panels when I hit them with a 15Hz test tone. They go freakin' mental. Watching it is scary. They wobble about like no one's business. Not something you want to do too often or with much SPL.

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

BTW you CAN punish even a lowly Duetta. Here's a video showing me pumping 400 Watts plus peak into my Duettas of bass heavy music. I'm freaked out it is so loud in there, hence the really erratic camera movements. The camera mic is overloaded too, I am sure, and it also completely misses low bass. Ignore the audio quality on this one.

microstrip · Jun 15, 2018

I do not know about the dB's. But after listening to the German Physics Gaudi playing really loud in a 9x6m room all else, including XLF's, Trios with bass horns, Stenheim Reference Ultime, become limited dynamic speakers ...

http://www.german-physiks.com/german-physiks-speaker-line/the-gaudi-mk-ii.html

Zero000 · Jun 15, 2018

microstrip said:
I do not know about the dB's. But after listening to the German Physics Gaudi playing really loud in a 9x6m room all else, including XLF's, Trios with bass horns, Stenheim Reference Ultime, become limited dynamic speakers ...

http://www.german-physiks.com/german-physiks-speaker-line/the-gaudi-mk-ii.html

I think they had the Emperor at Munich one year. But they were just on static display. Shame.

bonzo75 · Jun 15, 2018

User211 said:
I think what Ked meant is it won't sound like the field coil bass unit in the Focal Grand Utopia driven by say the Naim Statement amps i.e. you won't get cone impact. That's true, the bass horns will radiate bass in a more diffuse fashion, on a much grander scale, but I believe bass horn bass is quite superior to that Focal speaker. The cone in the Focal Grand Utopia is quite heavy, and has a mild plastic colouration to it IMHO. It can't track bass with the articulation of a decent pair of Apogee panels, but it sure will play loud.

+1

infinitely baffled · Jun 15, 2018

microstrip said:
I do not know about the dB's. But after listening to the German Physics Gaudi playing really loud in a 9x6m room all else, including XLF's, Trios with bass horns, Stenheim Reference Ultime, become limited dynamic speakers ...

http://www.german-physiks.com/german-physiks-speaker-line/the-gaudi-mk-ii.html

I like the look of those

The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?

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