The best Dipoles, Dipoles that can do bass?

infinitely baffled

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Hi guys

What is the state of the art regarding dipoles....who makes the best?
And can they do bass slam?

I have muliple subwoofers so absolute bass extension less important than mid bass slam.
Currently the contenders would be Nola Concert Grand Reference Gold
My current speakers are Focal Stella Utopia em3

So please, name your favourite dipoles that can do bass
I'm happy to consider speakers that may not be true full range dipoles but that have rear firing tweeters and mids

Has anyone heard the Kryon Gaias?

Thank you in advance for your thoughts
Gav
 

Folsom

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I forgot the name but they have no cabinet or baffles... they probably fit the description.
 

bonzo75

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Fly to Schipol and listen to the apogee grands. One day trip.
 

infinitely baffled

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Apogee Grands...interesting...

I've measured my living room's height and they would just fit.
The six channels of amplification would be more of a challenge


I'm also thinking it's about time i finally heard a pair of Tannoy Westminsters.
 

JackD201

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Goebels are Dipole

Von Schweikerts are adjustable between Cardiod and Super Cardiod. You would be looking at VR-9s, VR-11s, Ultra 9s and Ultra 11s. Having lived with Maggies for 3 years when my kids were in their tweeter poking stages (Oh my poor B&W annd Revels!) I got hooked on dipole soundfields but not the dynamic restrictions that I could not overcome given my rooms. The VRs have been satisfying me in that regard for 13 years now. So much so that my satisfaction prompted me to enter the industry. Talk about hooked. LOL.
 

infinitely baffled

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Yes I've found myself reading about Gobel recently. I'd like to know how they cope with my musical preferences, reggae and dub, drum and bass, deep house, trip and hiphop. This was the end of my interest in Zellaton, upon reading how unsuitable they were for bass driven electronica

Lack of bass when combined with their subs doesnt seem to be an issue for Gobel though.
Interesting that they work better with CH than with Analogue Domain
I had some AD amps here recently and while they were very good, they didn't have the magic of the Boulder

VS never appealed because transmission lines, meh
 

JackD201

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The models I mentioned have sealed midbass enclosures :)

I am heavy into electronica too but I think you know that since we've interacted on many electronica threads.

an old vid from a crappy phone 5 years ago when testing the DMX lighting controllers. Bass at 1:30 mark. These were my VR-9s which were later upgraded then replaced by VR-11s. They were a bit too small for my room but I think they show potential of what they can do when cruising in party mode even w MP3s. No external subs with this set up.

Di-pole like projection/spread also audible from the rear couches of the 34ft room.

 
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infinitely baffled

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I love the video Jack the lighting is awesome.
I'm going to google the DMX lighting controller now

Have VS managed to solve the timing issue with transmission lines?
 

bonzo75

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Apogee Grands...interesting...

I've measured my living room's height and they would just fit.
The six channels of amplification would be more of a challenge


I'm also thinking it's about time i finally heard a pair of Tannoy Westminsters.

I will be doing a tannoy tour through the year. But I don't think these are anywhere close to apogees for your kind of music's
 

infinitely baffled

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That's very interesting Ked....one would have thought the big Tannoys would be very dynamic, perhaps the Apogees less so

I will look forward to hearing your impressions :)
 

bonzo75

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That's very interesting Ked....one would have thought the big Tannoys would be very dynamic, perhaps the Apogees less so

I will look forward to hearing your impressions :)

Apogees are fantastically dynamic with large grand scale bass... Just needs loads of current and power and bi amping... Mids are fabulous as well. I am looking at tannoys (and many do choose the Canterbury over the Westminster) because they are easy to fit into a living room, and sound nice. I have no doubt that large horns and apogees are better, but in central London there is always a space struggle
 

JackD201

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I love the video Jack ?? the lighting is awesome.
I'm going to google the DMX lighting controller now

Have VS managed to solve the timing issue with transmission lines?

Actually they use quasi-transmission lines and so there is no timing problem. The alignment is "quasi" because the port isn't actually a tuned port but rather a pressure valve. They do this by making the pressure decrease in a way it would with a long line by using damping material in varying densities until at the end what we have is a combination of a line with aperiodic loading. If you put your hand to the "ports" of one of the smaller models that use the QTLs, You'll find you hardly feel any air pressure. In other words the acoustic output is still only from the driver diaphragms. All this to save on volume hence size. Almost all VS floorstanders get to 20Hz unlike comparably sized competitors who typically get down to the 30s. So there's a misnomer in there somewhere since what it is really trying to do is emulate a much larger sealed enclosure by managing the pressure behind the speaker cone similar to behave the way the aforementioned does. The line is ann ingredient so to speak. So we get speed and pitch definition similar to a sealed box but the extension you would get in a bigger sealed box.

The way I finally got is TL+Aperiodic=big ass sealed cab LOL Damn, it took me years to understand how this works. That's why I'm not a speaker designer I guess LOL

Like I mentioned though, the higher models I mentioned are sealed because they only need to play down to 50Hz flat, after which the active bass units. take over.

The stick is cool right? Crazy though how a few short years later we have companies like Philips with their Hue line of products that can be controlled with an app. Hoo boy. The ravers grew up to be engineers. Philips HUe has some really funny home demo videos on youtube :D
 

microstrip

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I will be doing a tannoy tour through the year. But I don't think these are anywhere close to apogees for your kind of music's

What is attracting you towards big Tannoy's?
 

Zero000

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Where are you?

Anywhere near Bristol and you can come and hear my Apogee Duetta Interstellas - upgraded Duetta Sigs. Mid bass speed and slam is off the scale when compared to Tannoy Westminsters.

For speed in any area of the frequency range, they are extremely quick. Rise times that compare with the best amplifiers (OK I read that somewhere, I can't prove it as fact, but they do sound incredibly "fast").
 

Zero000

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The below is a video of a 320Kbps MP3 of Jim Keltner's Improvisation from an Usher test disk.

Underneath it is a link to the same track recorded using a Rowland Edirol you see in the video by the sound pressure meter.

Make no mistake this test track is really hissy with additional LF noise from somewhere - no noise reduction on analogue tape from a long time ago. However, the recording has plenty of slam, which makes it an impressive listen.

If you follow the link you can download the 44.1KHz uncompressed .wav recording, which is better quality than the camera mic, obviously. Compare the two for fun, but you'd have to be pretty mad to bother doing it, I accept that. Play loud, though, if you do. The .WAV download contains the bass the camera mic misses along with other improvements in quality, I think.

The problem is when played back on my dynamic Mark & Daniels, they can't convey the sheer speed of the Apogees. However, I think all will agree you can tell the speakers aren't slow (and have real balls), LOL.

Just a bit of fun don't take it too seriously. Feel free to say it sounds bad, but I can tell you in room it is astonishing. This on properly tricked out restored Full Range must be astonishing+++.

We're getting 96 odd DB from nominally 80 Watt tube amps here, with a bit of headroom to spare yet, from an Apogee. Take note of that - the Duetta never was really hard to drive.

Note my Lampizator is away being fixed/modified, and I am simply using a £100 Chinese DAC, a Xiang Sheng DAC-01A, with a Western Electric 396A in it. Amazingly good for the money.

Make sure you play back at at least 720P.

The track is a pretty well known hi-fi show track.




The Rowland Edirol .WAV version download.
 
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Folsom

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Kyron Gaia is what I was thinking about but couldnt recall.
 

gian60

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I had Soundlab A1 and mono sub Soundlab B1 drive by Mark Levinson N20 bridge,400 watt,and the bass was much better that the bass of Apogee full range with Krell 200 reference
I could listen in my room long 9 mt the 16 hz of the organ record of Miller & Kreisel.You don't listen music but listen 16 hz in your body
The best bass i listen in my 43 years of hifi
Really incredible
 
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Zero000

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I had Soundlab A1 and mono sub Soundlab B1 drive by Mark Levinson N20 bridge,400 watt,and the bass was much better that the bass of Apogee full range with Krell 200 reference
I could listen in my room long 9 mt the 16 hz of the organ record of Miller & Kreisel.You don't listen music but listen 16 hz in your body
The best bass i listen in my 43 years of hifi
Really incredible

Augmenting with dynamic subs is cheating. Isn't the idea that we're talking what the planar itself can do? Accept that setup could be great, but blending dynamic subs with planars is hard to do well.

For real very low bass balls you can't beat a dynamic sub, or a Thigpen I would suspect (don't know never heard a Thigpen but I bet it is awesome on the right material).
 

gian60

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Sorry i don't understand
Soundlab B1 are subwoofer electrostatic starting from 16 to 100 hz.
Each sub mono is width 1 mt and high 2.15 mt
 

Zero000

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Sorry i don't understand
Soundlab B1 are subwoofer electrostatic starting from 16 to 100 hz.
Each sub mono is width 1 mt and high 2.15 mt

Ah my bad. Just looked the B1 up. I just assumed it was a cone.

Looks like really early B1s used a dual diaphragm. That's before the CLX. Be curious to hear it. According to my test mic the Duettas above hit 21Hz flat in room. Not bad.
 
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