May you pls recommend some “uber” neutral, uncolored cables to start with.
Kind regards,
Tang
New trends, Artisans in the Hi-End, Kuro SilverGold cables
- Thread starter caliaripaolo
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May you pls recommend some “uber” neutral, uncolored cables to start with.
Kind regards,
Tang
Bazelio,
this is not my case. I have an extremely revealing system and from what I can imagine from your list of components, much more than yours.
With Kuro SilverGold cables I discover details that I have never heard.
BTW, there is nothing more euphonic than tubes, and it seems to me that you prefer this type of solution.
Anyway, Kuro SilveGold cables doesn't add any type of euphonic colorations.
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Incorrect.
Only certain tube amps are euphonic. I can't speak for the EAR gear, but my Octave RE 320 amp doesn't sound colored to me. I know Spectral gear very well, and love it. Would be my choice of SS amplification.
I once had the Spectral DMC-15/DMA-260 combo in my system for audition, and the tonal balance of my old tube amps back then, modified Audio Innovations Second Audio triode push-pull monoblocks, was basically the same, except a slight roll-off in the highs compared to the Spectral (with its excellent output transformer, my current Octave doesn't roll off).
IMHO "Incorrect" is not the right word to be used here.
if we speak in general terms, Tubes tend to be euphonic, and this is one of the important features for audiophiles who prefer this kind of amplifiers.
I agree with you for loving Spectral gears.
It does not sound colored to you, but measurements show otherwise ...
We should not be shy because we love tubes!
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I might have something to say about choosing euphonic tube amps, but I won't go there
. As for tubes tending to be euphonic, this only holds if the power supply and the output transformer of the amp are not up to par (it's not easy to build both of these in an adequate manner; the power supply needs to provide stable high voltage without sagging under load). Inherently, tubes are very linear devices.I agree with you for loving Spectral gears.
Of course, which is why I mentioned it
.I don't see how these measurements show coloration. Speakers themselves usually show higher harmonic distortion than the correctly biased amp.
By the way, more negative feedback to lower harmonic distortion can introduce its own colorations (even though not necessarily in the frequency domain), but I suppose you are very well aware of that. Spectral amps are the only ones that I have heard so far where extensive negative feedback does not have readily audible drawbacks (I will concede though that my experience is limited).
We should not be shy because we love tubes!
I never said that tube amps measure perfectly, they don't. But I hear what I hear.
It is OK if you do not want to see and find excuses for it. My point is that such measurements probably show an euphonic amplifier (pleasing to the ear for some of us) and owners should congratulate the designers on it. Remember that 4V RMS is just 2W at 8 ohms.
Although I generally prefer tube electronics, I am aware they are euphonic, and IMHO part of their euphony comes from their electro-mechanical behavior.
The poor argument that since speakers have higher harmonic distortion than amplifiers amplifier distortion does not matter has been dismissed since long. In two words : we are comparing apples with oranges.
Negative feedback is a completely different matter.
I can't say whose system is more revealing as I'm not familiar with yours outside the TotalDAC (great source BTW). Vinyl and the tube amp certainly do add a harmonic density, which is why I said many posts back that I want a cable which simply reveals the innate character of my source.
Well, we can discuss this until we're blue in the face but honestly I have little appetite for it at this point.
While I have not compared the Octave with Spectral in my system, I did compare my previous amps, which had pretty high measured harmonic distortion, with Spectral in my old system, and was frankly surprised how close they were in tonal balance, as I described. I heard what I heard, and that's a fact. Of course, you don't need to believe me, that's your free choice.
BTW, next time when you post a graph please provide a link. Thanks.
Keith is "reading between the lines" that cost and quality are not always well correlated. He's correct.
For this statement I completely agree with you. Especially now that I have compared my Kuro cables with others that cost about 4 times more.
I don't know if they are "Uber" enough, but the Wywires Diamond cables are all about detail and ultimately transparency. Some people I know complain they lack "heart and soul", which only reinforces that.
The top of the line Jorma cables are certainly "Uber" enough, and are pretty close to (but not absolutely) neutral. I am actually amazed at the performance Jorma achieves with copper wire at the top of the line - but they do still contain a hint of copper's "natural tone", AKA slight euphonic coloration. However their dynamics, detail, and clarity are still excellent. Although not necessarily surpassing the overall performance in those areas of cables I've heard at lesser price points.
I don't know if they are "Uber" enough, but the Wywires Diamond cables are all about detail and ultimately transparency. Some people I know complain they lack "heart and soul", which only reinforces that.
That's exactly what I would say about the Jorma cables I tested. Best copper cables I've ever tried out, only a touch of the copper warmth otherwise very clear and detailed. I think this may be achieved through the use of high voltage conditioning, I am planning to buy a Tesla coil and do some testing.
I can certainly see why they are a good pair with Marten speakers, especially with SS electronics.
That's exactly what I would say about the Jorma cables I tested. Best copper cables I've ever tried out, only a touch of the copper warmth otherwise very clear and detailed. I think this may be achieved through the use of high voltage conditioning, I am planning to buy a Tesla coil and do some testing.
Let me know if you need a D4-Tesla and D5-Tesla wire beta tester. ;-)
Congratulations on your new cables and thank you for sharing your experience. I am curious about a few things. I once tried MIT cables and have heard them in many systems. Did you ever play around with the settings on the network boxes and hear different results? Could you say more about what you mean by a "slight veiling"? Finally, I always thought Spectral gear required the MIT cables. Does not using them now in your system affect the warranty or create any other issues?
EDIT: Have you ever had Master Built cables in your system or compared them somewhere to these new Kuro cables?
I was under the impression that the Zenwave D4 or D5 cables are very neutral. I have heard them but never directly compared them to anything else in the same system. How would you describe the "coloration" of a gold plated silver conductor?
EDIT: having now read the entire thread, I see the distinction between silver/gold alloy and gold plated silver and the point that you are making. DaveC's comments also helped. Thanks.
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Sorry, but I have nothing to understand!!!
I do not have to convince you of anything. It is not my role and I do not understand your interpretation of my words.
I do not understand the connection between
More natural to me means:
1. the violin sounds like when I listen to it live played by a friend of mine,
2. the drum plates have the same jingle or sound as when my son plays it
3. the voice of patricia barber is there in front of me without any sign of veil or digital artifice
but the above, of course, does not depend only by the cables but also by the system on which the cables are inserted.
so, to answer your question:
YES, these cables are neutral and transparent,
NO, these cables add nothing to what your system proposes, but they bring most of the information to the end of their path in the correct way.
BTW, How is your system made up? I do not see in your signature or your profile the system listing.
Thank you for writing this. The term "natural" is often misunderstood or means different things to different people. Your definition is pretty much how I use the term "natural" also. If one has a very good recording, that is, it captures the information of what is being recorded in an accurate way, then, a transparent cable in a transparent system, will convey or present that information honestly and without coloration, and the resulting impression will be one that is natural, or reminiscent of the actual, original musical event.
In this sense, I think you and bazelio agree that a transparent cable is the best means by which to achieve your goal of a convincing sound from your audio system.
The influence of gold in interconnect connectors and/or chassis connectors is not difficult to hear. The same should be true of gold plated or gold alloy wire. The introduction of gold has always resulted in a warmer and richer tonality and often at the expense of detail, in my experience. In experiments with DIY interconnects using gold connectors and gold plated chassis conectors, I've heard an accentuated upper bass to lower midrange bloom which tends to bleed somewhat into the mids and even the highs causing a bit of veil. I am very interested in the Zenwave proprietary gold/silver alloy, as I found the standard Neotech alloy formula nice sounding but excessively colored for my preference and I have to assume Dave's formulation has reduced the gold percentage in order to achieve neutrality. Incidentally, I used raw D4 hookup wire internal to my passive Slagleformer preamp which is already online, and the result is very impressive. Best preamp I've ever heard. So often veil or coloration is there unknowingly, until it's gone. Switching to the Slagleformer passive from an EAR 868 in my system was eye opening.
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Thank you and you are welcome Peter,
yes I tried several settings of MIT's network box.
BTW, I still have my Oracle MA digital cable and my preferred setting is with the Articulation Selector at 4/5 towards the maximum articulation.
The Oracle MA-X2, I used before Kuro's advent, had been setted the same at 4/5 towards the maximum articulation and the adjustable Impedence switch to LOW (to pair with the input sensitivity of my Spectral amplifier).
before inserting the Kuro cables into my system, I was convinced that the Oracle MA-X2 had a great micro-detail. I'm still convinced of this, but, especially in the upper mid, the feeling I had with MIT was like when, many years ago, a cassette was playing and the recorder's head was slightly misaligned.
Obviously I'm not talking about a difference like the day and night, but now with Kuro cables my system seems resolve considerably more ambient content. It's like a light on to reveal more information about everything in music. But this was inherent in my system, these cables simply allow me to get the most out of my system.
I do not use a Spectral Pre. My TotalDac drives my Spectral Amplifier. IMHO, MIT cables are recommended for spectral output connections. As regards the input, it is very important for the SQ that the driver (in my case totaldac) has a high current oputput stage.
Not, never tried.
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