Effects of improved power cords on turntables

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Probably Micro. Speed stability is SOOO overrated ??.
I find it a pretty compelling performer. I believe it’s accurate to 0.3%.
Vic the designer has a long narrative featured on the Lenco Heaven forum about the development of the tt, and why he got rid of all servo speed control.

Perhaps he does not have servo control from the platter - many designers do it - but DC motors must have some kind of servo control.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
Francisco, Google
“from Lenco to Salvation” on Lenco Heaven
and get the story over 4 pages
 

microstrip

VIP/Donor
May 30, 2010
20,806
4,698
2,790
Portugal
Francisco, Google
“from Lenco to Salvation” on Lenco Heaven
and get the story over 4 pages

It does not say what is doing : "For the final production Salvations the drive system & electronics have been further tweaked to improve the sound & increase speed stability"
 

tima

Industry Expert
Mar 3, 2014
5,777
6,819
1,400
the Upper Midwest
I'd want to see information correlating events at the stylus groove interface with the power cord. Apart from accurate speed, i'm not seeing what the correlation could be. All things being equal (they never are) would you want a TT whose sound is influenced by its power cord? What sort of design would that be?

Air supported platter - would the power cord of the air pump contribute to stereo sonics?
Vacuum hold down - would the power cord of the air pump impact sonics?
Would the power cord impact noise put onto the line, say from a switching power supply, and affect the system overall? Possibly.

I've run my drive controller on the same dedicated line as my front end runs on and i've run it on a separate line, and heard no difference. I'm thinking the dedicated line would have more influence than a power cord.

Last year I talked w/ Alvin Lloyd about this topic - power to a TT, not cords specifically. He was pretty skeptical but said it would be straightforward to run his 'tables on battery power. Is anyone aware of a non-one-off battery run 'table with the option for wall power? I'm not.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
Francisco, Salvation is discontinued, and Vic the designer isn’t totally forthcoming about his design choices. It took some work to get the specs to make up the new psu.
 

analogsa

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2017
382
122
175
Cascais
Analogsa, my tt is not particularly well known. It utilises a DC motor that supplies 22-25V to the speed controller, but I’ve had a much better unit built. I’ll try and get a summary of its features and report back.
What may or may not be critical, is that the speed controller that the psu supplies is a purely analog, non servo feedback device, it does not measure and adjust itself, just needs tweaking every so often.

I understand, thanks for clearing this up.

Some time ago i played with a simple brushed Maxon motor. Tried several control schemes and amusingly also ended up with no feedback and no servo. Instead, used a massive source of raw dc, choke filtered and regulated. Perhaps absolute speed is not very accurate, but it sounds better than anything else i tried. Replacing the raw dc source with batteries changes the sound dramatically, but not necessarily for the better. If this was a commercial project i would probably adopt the old concept of Teres: monitoring the speed of the platter and integrating this over a long period of time before making adjustments.

Why cables should be audible in such a setup is a mystery, but nearly everything related to the audibility of cables and wire is equally mysterious.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
Analogsa, this totally mirrors Vic’s experience and decision to go for no servo feedback. Whether it was simple optical sensor, or voltage changes w change in speed, all feedback led to smeared dynamics and hazy images.
 

analogsa

Well-Known Member
Apr 15, 2017
382
122
175
Cascais
Last year a friend who owns a Criterion lent me his motor pod and huge controller box for a couple of days. Very, very underwhelmed. Perhaps more authority an bass solidity than the Maxon but a lot less pleasant and musical. For me it was not an upgrade.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
Analogsa, SNAP! My current situation involves a much overspecced dc supply, w special oversized R-core transformer, oversized chokes, high speed rectifiers, specially selected caps and gold plated DC plugs.
I have to correct speed every few days at the start of a session.
But speed appears to be rock solid over the course of lps.
Whether the Sablon pwr cord has any effect here, or in effect feeds less noise into the motor, the result is a further removal of veils.
My analog is startlingly good atm, I personally would be highly reluctant to swap to anything else.
 

BruceD

VIP/Donor
Dec 13, 2013
1,509
576
540
Last year I talked w/ Alvin Lloyd about this topic - power to a TT, not cords specifically. He was pretty skeptical but said it would be straightforward to run his 'tables on battery power. Is anyone aware of a non-one-off battery run 'table with the option for wall power? I'm not.

Umm-- Thales?:rolleyes:

BruceD
 

Mike Lavigne

Member Sponsor & WBF Founding Member
Apr 25, 2010
12,468
11,365
4,410
I've not compared power cables on a turntable, but I recently did compare power cables on one of my Studer A-820's.

I had acquired a new power cable using the new Furutech DPS-4 bulk cable with the Furutech NCF plugs. it was cheaper than the Absolute Fidelity (Genesis Loudspeakers) power cables with the NCF plugs I've been using everywhere (I have 11 of them and just ordered a 12th for my new Studer).

after 5 days on my Audiodarma Cable Cooker and another 2 days to settle in place and powered up I did an A/B on the Studer A-820. unfortunately; it was not close in terms of body and refinement, the Absolute Fidelity was quite a bit better. the two cables were close on noise floor and dynamics. I had been hoping that the 'machine made' DPS-4 bulk cable could compete with the hand made and very good AF power cord. we used the stock signal path of the Studer for this test so the audio circuits would be in play for the test; so who knows if we are just powering a motor on the tape deck or turntable if we would have heard a difference one way or the other. and with all those other Absolute Fidelity power cords in my system there could also be a synergy thing going on, although I doubt it would affect a tape deck.....but it's something that could be at play.

this is just a data point.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
Ok, not trying to open a can of worms here, but how can a power cable to a turntable motor in any way affect sound?
It doesn’t! I’ve heard this many times and seen people doing it, this is audiophile BS at it’s worst. Sorry Spirit but you should have your head examined if you think the motor gives a $hit what kind of power cord is connected to it and it affects the sound. Next you’ll tell me that you put one of those cords on your electric kettle and it changed the taste of the water!

david
 

Folsom

VIP/Donor
Oct 25, 2015
6,024
1,490
520
Eastern WA
Power conditioning is very good for DD turntables. Powercord? :rolleyes:
 

bonzo75

Member Sponsor
Feb 26, 2014
22,442
13,472
2,710
London
It doesn’t! I’ve heard this many times and seen people doing it, this is audiophile BS at it’s worst. Sorry Spirit but you should have your head examined if you think the motor gives a $hit what kind of power cord is connected to it and it affects the sound. Next you’ll tell me that you put one of those cords on your electric kettle and it changed the taste of the water!

david

I use a different cord on my kettle for coffee, earl grey, and masala chai respectively.
 

ddk

Well-Known Member
May 18, 2013
6,261
4,040
995
Utah
I use a different cord on my kettle for coffee, earl grey, and masala chai respectively.

You should do the same for your electric rice cooker, it will turn your boring white basmati into aromatic saffron rice!:p

david
 

TLi

Well-Known Member
May 27, 2016
432
1,080
253
I have to disagree with most of you. Power cord to turntable changes the sound. Power cords to all electrical appliances in the same power grid change the sound.

Power cords that are connected to large transformers are more influential than others. Power cord affects the vibration pattern of transformers which in turn affects the sound.

Everyone can do a simple experiment. Plug a free standing power amp into your power grid, switch the amp on but it is not connected to anything both input and output. You will find changing the power cord of the amp also changes the sound. The amp is not on the signal path but it is on the power line. All transformers in the same grid are connected and affecting each other.
 

Tango

VIP/Donor
Mar 12, 2017
4,938
6,268
950
Bangkok
You should do the same for your electric rice cooker, it will turn your boring white basmati into aromatic saffron rice!:p

david

You really crack me up David. Lol. Maybe I could turn jasmine rice into risotto too if I use my Siltech with the rice cooker.

Of all people, I spent sh_t load of money on power cables. I love them. But sincerely I have tried the Tripple Crown Siltech on AF1P and I didn’t hear any positive differences comparing to the cables that came free with it.

Kind regards,
Tang

I like power cords.
 

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
No disrespect Dave, but your word isn’t gospel. You may think it is, but it isn’t.
It’s made a difference here, that’s all that matters.
 
Last edited:

spiritofmusic

Well-Known Member
Jun 13, 2013
14,604
5,413
1,278
E. England
As with all things audio, there’s going to be lots of dichotomy in views. I had enough to contend with when an arch skeptic wouldn’t let it go re my finding excellent benefits from Entreq. I put up w enough brickbats from him.
I know what I’m hearing, but yes, I understand it’s hard to explain. To all those people who don’t hear differences in things, bravo, that’s one less thing to contend with/spend money on.
 

About us

  • What’s Best Forum is THE forum for high end audio, product reviews, advice and sharing experiences on the best of everything else. This is THE place where audiophiles and audio companies discuss vintage, contemporary and new audio products, music servers, music streamers, computer audio, digital-to-analog converters, turntables, phono stages, cartridges, reel-to-reel tape machines, speakers, headphones and tube and solid-state amplification. Founded in 2010 What’s Best Forum invites intelligent and courteous people of all interests and backgrounds to describe and discuss the best of everything. From beginners to life-long hobbyists to industry professionals, we enjoy learning about new things and meeting new people, and participating in spirited debates.

Quick Navigation

User Menu

Steve Williams
Site Founder | Site Owner | Administrator
Ron Resnick
Site Co-Owner | Administrator
Julian (The Fixer)
Website Build | Marketing Managersing