Best usb to spdif converter?

Scolopendra

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Apr 6, 2018
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The distance between my pc and audio rack means that I can’t rely on a pure USB connection as the distance will be too long. I’m not sure if this rules out i2s, as I’ve heard jitter occurs easily during longer runs. I also can’t use Ethernet, such as a Sonore Rendu or ps audio network bridge, because I’m not streaming or playing audio files. I want a plug and play solution that lets me use my DAC for everything, including just watching online videos or gaming. If there is some way I can use superior connections such as Ethernet or i2s, feel free to educate me.

I’m just looking for optimal sound quality straight from my pc. Any solution, even one that isn’t a converter, is welcome. So far AES/EBU seems best from what I know.

So far, I know of these:

Berkeley Alpha: Classic, but I’m not sure if it’s still best after all of these years.

Totaldac reclocker: very expensive, but I’m not sure if it’s even any good

Singxer su1/Gustard u12: both are very similar and appear to be more “modern” options as they support more formats as well as an i2s output

Empirical off-ramp: this one looks great - like an upgraded Gustard. Not sure it beats the other high end options, though it has more flexibility in terms of outputs for sure.

Mutec mc-3+

Any more ideas?
 
Last edited:

asiufy

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Scolopendra,

Aurender has a USB->SPDIF converter as well, I believe it's $700.

Another option would be to use Airplay or some other wireless audio streaming solution. Some streamers support Airplay, like the Auralic and Aurender products.
 

Empirical Audio

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Ethernet interfaces are not only for streaming, although they sometimes enable it depending on the software. I use one every day and I don't stream.

If you have Ethernet at your DAC or strong WIFI, then the Interchange Ethernet converter will give you the best SQ, using the software I recommend here. Interchange plays 16/44.1 - 24/192 PCM files in any format (I highly recommend .wav format for best SQ):

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156409.0

I have designed 6 generations of USB converters, including XMOS with galvanic isolation (Off-Ramp - Off-Ramp 6) and the Interchange is the best sounding converter. Here are the comparison listening test results and measurements:

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=155232.0

Interchange has S/PDIF coax, AES/EBU and RJ-45 I2S as well as HDMI I2S outputs. It is essentially like a Sonos Connect, but high-end performance with more outputs. I highly recommend using the S/PDIF coax output with my BNC coax cable to your DAC. I2S will also be very good, depending on the DAC implementation, using my silver I2S cable. Going the I2S route is a bit more expensive due to the silver cable cost. My best Reference BNC coax is $499.00.

The Interchange Ethernet interface is also available in my Overdrive SX DAC, so it does not have to be an external device with separate power supply.

If you need WIFI to get to your DAC, then I offer a WIFI solution with LPS and cables for $1K. There is no SQ compromise with this WIFI solution compared to the wired Ethernet.

The only requirement is that the PC have access to the network and the DAC has access to the network. WIFI or wired Ethernet.

This is not about streaming, although you can do it if you want. Streaming is usually FLAC files, which is not optimum. Also, the best Ethernet playback software that I recommend does not support streaming.

The playback software can play your local files or files on a NAS. All three optimum softwares are free and run on Linux, Mac and PC:

Linn Kinsky, Minimserver and BubbleUPnP. You need all 3.

You can alternatively control the playback from an iPad or similar using Linn Kazoo or Lumin. These do support streaming from Tidal or Qobuz if you want that, but they also play your local files. As I said, SQ is not as good with streaming.

Online video or gaming is a problem with Ethernet however. These need to drive the device and most are not designed for this. It needs to be USB if you want this feature because it uses the PC audio stack to identify the device and then other apps like games and movies also output to that same device.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

dminches

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Oct 22, 2011
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Scolopendra

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Online video or gaming is a problem with Ethernet however. These need to drive the device and most are not designed for this. It needs to be USB if you want this feature because it uses the PC audio stack to identify the device and then other apps like games and movies also output to that same device.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio

That may be so, but the converter is technically a usb-sourced device. Are you saying the DAC has to be DIRECTLY usb powered for general use?

You also mentioned you preferred BNC SPDIF out of the conventional outputs. Are you saying it beats AES/EBU?

In any case, your device was added to the list. Looks to me like a more flexible Berkeley. I call it front runner so far.
 

Empirical Audio

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That may be so, but the converter is technically a usb-sourced device. Are you saying the DAC has to be DIRECTLY usb powered for general use?

The Interchange is a Ethernet only device, no USB. You may be looking at my Off-Ramp 5 USB converter on my website. The Interchange is not on the website yet, but it is shipping.

In order for applications like movies and games to detect the device and output to it, it needs to be USB on the computer. The problem is that the applications do not query the network looking for DLNA Ethernet devices. They go directly to the OS audio stack and look for devices. This is why it needs to be USB for movies and games.

You also mentioned you preferred BNC SPDIF out of the conventional outputs. Are you saying it beats AES/EBU?

There are several reasons why S/PDIF is preferable:

1) it is more difficult to make a good AES cable with uniform impedance and low-loss than S/PDIF
2) XLR connectors do not match the 110 ohm impedance as well as specific coax and BNC connectors matching 75 ohms
3) AES/EBU can require higher voltage than S/PDIF to achieve the spec, so an additional driver can add jitter

The advantage is of course that AES/EBU is differential, so there is some common-mode noise rejection. S/PDIF can also be transformer coupled to eliminate common-mode noise. I actually transformer couple both, but the S/PDIF is better if not transformer coupled. Pulse transformers add jitter.

In any case, your device was added to the list. Looks to me like a more flexible Berkeley. I call it front runner so far.

My best USB converter, the Off-Ramp 6 is similar to the Berkeley with galvanic isolation and XMOS chip used, but it has some advantages. It must be used I2S however. Measured jitter of the Off-Ramp 6 is similar to my Interchange, less than 20psec.

The thing to understand is: why did I go Ethernet and prefer it over USB?

In order to deliver optimum sound quality, USB requires:

1) optimum playback software - expensive
2) expensive USB cable
3) optimum PC power supply - fast LPS
4) good USB output port on the computer - sometimes custom
5) kill all background tasks on the computer
6) isolation or filtering on the USB cable

In order for Ethernet to have same or better SQ:

1) generic PC or Mac
2) optimum playback software - free
3) router or switch with DC common connected to earth ground
4) $130 isolator in the Ethernet cable

If you want Ethernet to leave USB in the dust, add:

1) Really good Ethernet cables from Wireworld
2) modified router or switch, like AQVOX AQ-switch V1
3) fast LPS to power the router or switch

Also, streaming from the web is an option and it is really easy to use other apps on ipad or iphone to control it.

Other tweaks:
https://www.audiostream.com/content/ethernet-accessories-and-cables

The bottom like is that it is cheaper and simpler to get superb SQ from Ethernet than USB.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Scolopendra

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Apr 6, 2018
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Firstly, I’d like to thank you for your thorough responses. It’s clear you care a lot about your craft, and I would love to find out more about the off ramp 6, which isn’t listed on your website.

However, I must say that regardless of ease of use, superior sound quality, etc, direct ethernet connection will not be an option. As I said, this DAC/pc setup is primarily just so I can use my stereo system for games and media. Am I not getting the most out of my system and my dac? Perhaps, but I’ve got a vinyl player for when I want to listen to real hifi. This is just about getting the best possible plug-and play connection that my computer will recognize without issue.

On that note, I’d like to ask more about the off ramp 5 and 6. My computer should recognize usb/spdif conversion just fine, as it’s essentially a usb powered sound card. That makes the off ramp 5 an attractive option.

However, would my computer be able to recognize a usb-i2s conversion, such as off-ramp 6? The Ethernet output shouldn’t suffer a distance limitation, so I could use a short range usb and convert it to a superior Ethernet i2s, then connect it to something like ps audio’s bridge II. If my computer will recognize this, I’ll go that route. If not, I’ll get a ramp 5 or 6 and use BNC.

What irks me still is the fact that thunderbolt still hasn’t taken off after all these years. It’s becoming more standard on high end computers, but audio gear still uses USB 2.0!!! Somebody needs to step up and add thunderbolt to DACs, or make a thunderbolt to spdif converter, which would be more universal at the moment. We’ve had the solution to computer audio woes in front of us for years, and only the pro audio world has done anything with it!
 

jkeny

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You could audition one of these options Ciunas Audio ISO-DAC or ISO-SPDIF - both of which isolate & reclock the USB signals at the USB input - the sonic difference this makes is astounding & you have a 30 day home trial period
 

Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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On that note, I’d like to ask more about the off ramp 5 and 6. My computer should recognize usb/spdif conversion just fine, as it’s essentially a usb powered sound card. That makes the off ramp 5 an attractive option.

If you are using a computer running Windows or Linux, the Off-Ramp 5 is a good choice. It supports 44.1-192 and outputs on S/PDIF, AES/EBU, RJ-45 I2S and HDMI I2S. 30-day money-back and it's available on the website. It requires a driver be loaded. They can be downloaded from the webpage.

If you want the best possible SQ, then use my Reference BNC coax cable and upgrade the power supply to the Dynamo.

If you want to use Mac, then the Off-Ramp 6 is a better choice, however it only outputs on I2S.

However, would my computer be able to recognize a usb-i2s conversion, such as off-ramp 6?

The computer will recognize the USB interface. The I2S output from Off-Ramp 5 or 6 is not involved in that.

The Ethernet output shouldn’t suffer a distance limitation, so I could use a short range usb and convert it to a superior Ethernet i2s, then connect it to something like ps audio’s bridge II.

The distance from the last Ethernet switch or router to the DAC does matter. The distance from the computer to that router is not important. If you use Ethernet, you have 2 choices:

1) run Ethernet or WIFI for the entire system, no USB
2) run Ethernet to a Sonore Rendu and convert to USB

Either of these will require an application running on the computer that discovers the device. The computer alone will not do that like it does with USB.

I would recommend my WIFI adapter, so the distance to the DAC is not 100 feet. I typically use a 0.5m to an isolator and then 2m to the DAC.

If my computer will recognize this, I’ll go that route. If not, I’ll get a ramp 5 or 6 and use BNC.

Your computer will not detect the Ethernet devices on your network. It is up to the applications running on the computer to do that. There probably are some video and game apps that can do this, but I suspect that most will require USB and rely on the computer to detect the device. Therefore, USB is your best solution.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 

Empirical Audio

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Oct 12, 2017
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My webmaster bailed on me, so I'm in the process of maintaining the website myself. I have to get all the files, permissions and apps to edit it. This will take time.

In the meantime, here is the info on my forum:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=156409.0

I'm building a new revision sample Ethernet module as we speak (imbeds the rework) and starting mass production of them at my fabricator. This is one of the best products I have made in 22 years. A culmination of all of my learnings from previous products. I am confident that it is the best performing computer audio device on the market.

Steve N.
Empirical Audio
 
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mountainjoe

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stretchneck

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Apr 24, 2020
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Re- opening this thread. Anyone got thoughts on spdif performance of some of the newer DDC’s? Denafrips Gaia, Gustard U18?

I currently have matrix audio x-spdif 2. Very good, but I want more of what it gives me.

The ‘older’ audiophileo also looks very good…

Would welcome feedback
 

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