Best analog preamp for about $3000/3000€ ?

Yucca · Mar 23, 2018

Hello,

I’d like to put (hopefully) the last stone to my active based system, and I think the best I can do is adding a (very) good preamp to my rig.
My current system : modded Mac Mini with a Mojo Audio Illuminati PSU, roon/Tidal streaming -> Waversa smart hub (ethernet + usb) -> PSAudio directstream Junior Dac -> xxxxxx preamp ? -> handcrafted (in France) active tube crossover/buffer -> Geithain RL940 active speakers + 2 SVS SB2000 subs (bass management through Antimode 8033sII) + lots of passive correction (absorbers/diffusers)

I can spend about 3000€/$ (say max 3500) for a preamp.
It MUST have balanced inputs/outputs, remote control AND a very wide/deep immersive soundstage ( I owned a Parasound P7 who was quite good in this domain, and I’d like even better)
It will be connected through XLR to my active tube crossover, and the length of xlr cables to the active speakers are 12ft, and 18+12ft to the subwoofers (rca, impedance issues ?)

I consider these preamps at this time :
(I like passive TVC, as I already own a Promitheus reference, which is quite good)
New :
- Tortuga Audio passive preamps, balanced
- Merrill audio Cara (a beauty...)
Used :
- Music First Baby reference (quite hard to find for about 3000€...and no remote for most models)
- Different Krell models (as they usually have a very good soundstage...)
I’d prefer also active SS or passive if possible...but, EAR 868 maybe ?

Others ?

Tell me.

spiritofmusic · Mar 23, 2018

Check out the Java Triple Shot from NZ.
Blue58 on this forum is raving about it used in his system comprising SGM server, T&A Dac8, 45 tubes amps and AG Duos horns.

Yucca · Mar 24, 2018

Thanks for the Java...I already saw it, but can’t estimate if it’s better than The Tortuga’s with same technology (LDR) but who are much less expensive. I’m not saying it’s not good, but these are much more reviews with Tortuga models for years, and I can’t hear the Java before ordering...

About passive/transformers preamps, there’s also a nice beast I think, the triple M iCon preamp (2200£) from England. It would be the easier for me to order, and the price is within my budget.

Yucca · Mar 29, 2018

Maybe better with pics :

New or used models :

...didn't add the Java, as I don't want to go to much over 3000€ for the moment.

A Music First Baby Reference at half of the price new, with a remote would be perfect, though

Solypsa · Mar 29, 2018

Yucca said:
snip-

It will be connected through XLR to my active tube crossover, and the length of xlr cables to the active speakers are 12ft, and 18+12ft to the subwoofers (rca, impedance issues ?)
-snip

The length of cable to the speaker's amps will interact with the crossover output sections, so not a preamp concern. Since you've tried passive and active any overall impression about the DAC's ability to drive a passive well?

It appears you are digital only; does the preamp need to only be a volume control (No source selection, no phono)? Is there room to have a remote controlled attenuator added into the crossover, after inputs and before signal divider, since it's a custom box to start with?

I do love TdeP's work....

Yucca · Mar 29, 2018

The reason why i’m looking now for a pre is that I wanted first to simplify my system, removing my P7 and replacing it with an external crossover only (never owned tubes, so it was a good opportunity)
I tried directly from my directstream jr to my speakers...and I was very disappointed first. The soundstage was narrowed, no air anymore, no separation...I lost totally the magic I had before. So I added my «*old*» Promitheus TVC I have kept, and get again the same magic effect about soundstage/imaging.
So I believe I have to keep a preamp, active or passive.
The tube crossover will have a basic pot (no remote) for both subwoofer and mains though, maybe it would be enough. I can’t be sure yet, but if the result is not what I expect, a preamp will be added again.

But you’re right : maybe it will not be useful, if the tube crossover is really great...

gian60 · Mar 29, 2018

I had a fantasy passive preamp
Silvercore 324 with silver cable and trans
Silvercore produce trans for Silbatone
Tried also in the system of my friend was better than Mark Levinson 32
Less stage but more natural and transparent
Www.silvercore.de

morricab · Mar 30, 2018

Yucca said:
Hello,

I’d like to put (hopefully) the last stone to my active based system, and I think the best I can do is adding a (very) good preamp to my rig.
My current system : modded Mac Mini with a Mojo Audio Illuminati PSU, roon/Tidal streaming -> Waversa smart hub (ethernet + usb) -> PSAudio directstream Junior Dac -> xxxxxx preamp ? -> handcrafted (in France) active tube crossover/buffer -> Geithain RL940 active speakers + 2 SVS SB2000 subs (bass management through Antimode 8033sII) + lots of passive correction (absorbers/diffusers)

I can spend about 3000€/$ (say max 3500) for a preamp.
It MUST have balanced inputs/outputs, remote control AND a very wide/deep immersive soundstage ( I owned a Parasound P7 who was quite good in this domain, and I’d like even better)
It will be connected through XLR to my active tube crossover, and the length of xlr cables to the active speakers are 12ft, and 18+12ft to the subwoofers (rca, impedance issues ?)

I consider these preamps at this time :
(I like passive TVC, as I already own a Promitheus reference, which is quite good)
New :
- Tortuga Audio passive preamps, balanced
- Merrill audio Cara (a beauty...)
Used :
- Music First Baby reference (quite hard to find for about 3000€...and no remote for most models)
- Different Krell models (as they usually have a very good soundstage...)
I’d prefer also active SS or passive if possible...but, EAR 868 maybe ?

Others ?

Tell me.

A used Einstein "The Tube" or a used Allnic L1500 will do nicely.

Yucca · Mar 30, 2018

Silvercore, Einstein and Allnic seems to be also really nice (look AND sound).
I'm not in a hurry...so I've added all these to my hifishark alerts

Maybe just have to wait 'til a good used device will be for sale near my location...

(still in love with the EAR and the Music First, though...)

Thank you all, if you have other suggestions, just put it there.

VoicesInMyHead · Apr 7, 2018

I have a Music First Baby Reference v2 (with remote) and I can't recommend it enough! I even started out with their smaller Baby Classic and thought that was amazing, but in the end I couldn't resist upgrading to a BRv2, and I just couldn't imagine the impact it had to my system, it was a lot of money to put in for sure, but the reward was an enormous airy sound stage, bass to die for, smooth and warm wonderful music experience. What I learned during my research you should really make sure to get the v2 model of the Baby Reference, something to be cautious about if you're considering second hand purchases.

I think it's probably not fair to put the MF preamps in the same category as general passive preamps, their hand made transformer based devices are truly kick ass products.

Recent thoughts about downgrading, as in scaling down on number or boxes, has led me to consider selling it along with the rest of my gear (it's not going anywhere for 3k though), but to be honest it's also the device that makes me having second thoughts and doubt my plan, if a integrated system can ever match this wonderful preamp, I'm really not sure.... it's what I value the highest in my system.

hifimckinney · Jan 9, 2019

Yucca said:
Silvercore, Einstein and Allnic seems to be also really nice (look AND sound).
I'm not in a hurry...so I've added all these to my hifishark alerts
Maybe just have to wait 'til a good used device will be for sale near my location...

(still in love with the EAR and the Music First, though...)

Thank you all, if you have other suggestions, just put it there.

I have Silvercore Preamp 324. For me, it is now difficult to listen to music with active preamp now. Not sure where you are located but I am in TX. If you are close by, we can meet.

gian60 · Jan 9, 2019

I had this Silvercore and i can guarantee is fantastic,
i try also in the system of my friend with ML 32 and 33 and sound was better than ML 32,more natural,transparent,and sound go out from speaker more easily.
Less dynamic and deep but this we know the difference between passive and active amp.
Silvercore,deutsch company,produce silver transformer also for Silbatone

Yucca · Jan 9, 2019

I live in France, so not near from Texas

Thanks for your offer, anyway.
...still searching for a great (and not so expensive) preamp, I’m currently using my Promitheus reference TVC passive, and have ordered an small strange thing : The Truth (from TheHornshoppe), a kind of passive LDR with active buffers. It seems to be really a giant killer, even with the ugly look. I should get it within 2 weeks...we’ll see.

hifimckinney · Jan 9, 2019

gian60 said:
I had this Silvercore and i can guarantee is fantastic,
i try also in the system of my friend with ML 32 and 33 and sound was better than ML 32,more natural,transparent,and sound go out from speaker more easily.
Less dynamic and deep but this we know the difference between passive and active amp.
Silvercore,deutsch company,produce silver transformer also for Silbatone

Since I have been having itch to try Tortuga and/or Truth preamp, wanted to check if you have had any experience with them? If yes, how do they compare to Silvercore?

hifimckinney · Jan 9, 2019

Yucca said:
I live in France, so not near from Texas
Thanks for your offer, anyway.
...still searching for a great (and not so expensive) preamp, I’m currently using my Promitheus reference TVC passive, and have ordered an small strange thing : The Truth (from TheHornshoppe), a kind of passive LDR with active buffers. It seems to be really a giant killer, even with the ugly look. I should get it within 2 weeks...we’ll see.

I had Music First and Promitheus prior to Silvercore. Hard to compare and write about...it is like defining taste of water. The music comes so clean, effortless that you feel that music is not BEING played but instead it is flowing/dripping.

Whenever I try any active, initial few minutes are exciting and then I start feeling that delicacy has been taken over by power and that is when emotional disconnect happens.

gian60 · Jan 9, 2019

I had Audio Consulting Silver rock,Music First,Audio Tekne 9701 and Silverware was better for me

Only Audio Tekne 9501 i also own was better because more natural sound,but price was higher

gian60 · Jan 9, 2019

Audio Tekne 9501

gryphongryph · Jan 12, 2019

The Vincent SA-7 gets very good reviews, it uses tubes.

analogsa · Jan 12, 2019

gian60 said:
Audio Tekne 9501

Thank you for the pics. Just 12 steps? Shocking. The size of the transformers otoh is very impressive.

gian60 · Jan 12, 2019

Yes,12 steps are few and sometimes cannot find the right volume,but quality is very high.
One trans is for volume

Best analog preamp for about $3000/3000€ ?

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