How Much Workspace Behind Racks?

DaveyF

Well-Known Member
Jul 31, 2010
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I agree that placing front-end and pre-amplification equipment between the speakers is very sub-optimal!!

Not always, IME. Sometimes there are greater losses to be had by running very long ic's from the preamp to the amps. Although in an ideal world, I think placing the gear outside the space between the speakers is better, it will always depend on the room and its size- and your ability to locate the front end gear.

BTW, I think I saw RH placed his TT to the right of and behind his speaker in a corner....that's not between the speakers, but I suspect it was the worst place to put the TT!!:rolleyes::D

2nd BTW, I do think this is a very good subject. In my instance, since my rack weighs well over 300lbs and is on spikes, it has to be located in the room before any other gear can be placed....and the space behind it has to be considered. ( Don't ask me how I figured this out, LOL!!:mad::rolleyes:)
 

Al M.

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This is a really important consideration which Ron has raised not simply because of the obvious need to access the rear of the equipment but also because it impacts the performance of the system. The closer to wall you place equipment the heavier are the standing waves to which it will be subjected. These can have a very deleterious effect of hi-fi equipment which is microphonic. Also important is where you place the kit relative to loudspeakers.

I did some experiments which astounded me. I measured the SPL’s at 10hz intervals from 30Hz to 300Hz which is the most important region for standing waves. I used a signal generator and played it through my system at a constant level which would be sufficient to really excite air inthe room.

Most of us place our equipment between the loudspeakers in the middle and often quite close to the back wall. This is actually the worst possible place it could be. In my room I had standing wave peaks of up to +18db, relative to the mean sound level, which is horrendous and certainly enough to scramble the performance of record decks or CD players. I was astonished at the improvement I got when I relocated the kit to the middle of the side wall. It was a night and day improvement. It meant having long speaker cables (10m) but it was a really effective upgrade. I published an article on Jeff Place an audiophile site run by a gentleman called Jeff Day i the US. ‘How to Get Better Sound FRom Tannoy Westminster Royals’ which you might find interesting. (If you are interested google David King and Tannoy Westminster Royal and you should find it)

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

All the best

David

That is good to know, thanks a lot! I have my equipment between the speakers, but their drivers are 7 feet from the front wall, and the back of my equipment is 5 feet from the front wall (or what you call the back wall). The amp actually is on a stand on the floor in front of the rack, and the tubes, most susceptible to microphonics, are at a distance of 7 feet from the front wall *).

Given recommendations by others I had contemplated moving the equipment closer to the front wall, in order to more avoid sound reflections from the equipment (I had already moved back the rack a few inches from the speaker drivers), but I certainly won't do that now!

__________________

*) standing next to the speakers on the floor, the amps are not directly impacted by the speaker drivers since I have stand-mount monitors; the subwoofers (on stands) are at the front wall.
 
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bach_king

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Northampton , England
7 feet from the front wall will I think significantly reduce the effects I described. The best way to check is by setting up some simple experiments. Remember the position of the drivers is not relevant here. It is about near wall locations which harbour the damaging standing waves. However the more powerful the LF performance of your system is the more you will suffer these effects.

There is a guy called Jim Smith who hails from Georgia who has a very good set up manual called ‘Get Better Sound’ which I found very helpful on this.

Kind regards

David
 

sbnx

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Mar 28, 2017
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Hello everyone,

I use the Artesania Esoteryk rack. I have about 10" behind it and it is a little crowded. I am thinking about pulling it out another inch or two just to give a little breathing room for the cables.

I had a similar experience with my rack location. I used to have it behind the speakers. Then I bought a pair of 8 meter IC's (Thanks Marty) and moved it to the side wall slightly behind the listening position. Wow. That was an ear opening experience. Now I will say that I upgraded the cables with the move but I was using MIT before and MIT after the change. I would never put my rack back behind the speakers. I would say go buy yourself a cheap pair of longer cables and try it.

~Todd
 

Ron Resnick

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Jan 24, 2015
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I did some measuring and some wriggling yesterday and 15" actually is not all that much space to have to walk behind the future racks.
 

Ron Resnick

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I have only 36" deep of protected space. I could extend the wall a few inches to create 40" or 42" of protected space, but then I am reducing the luxuriously large opening to the home theater/audio equipment room.

I think I might be back to a 12" "walk-way" and reverse-reading mirrors.
 

SCAudiophile

Well-Known Member
Sep 11, 2010
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It will depend in a sizable part on what cables you utilize, size, flexibility, etc...I have tried 12" and slightly less or more.
Two words "NEVER Again"; with all the power cords, interconnects, etc...behind a multi-component rack setup, particular
one in corners or alcoves the 'cramp factor' is quite high even with smaller size/girth cables. I currently have 24" behind
the racks which is a joy particularly when you take the cables I utilize into consideration with their size, rigid main sections
(with flexible ends). My advice, make it is easy on yourself now and for future choices of components, rack and cables of
all kinds; plan for 16"-24". If your rack will be mid-stage between speakers, the answer to this question directly correlates
for the most part to how far out from the walls your speakers are generally placed as welll..
 

RogerD

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May 23, 2010
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Ron,
Get some good size boxes and make a mock size rack. You can then visualize how it will look in the room and how it will effect your entrance. I would shoot for 18 inches at least. In my zoo of snakes and equipment 30 inches is a blessing.
 

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Ron Resnick

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Roger, good idea. I did just that — a mock-up. 15” could work but that is tight to walk around (even for me, and I do not take up much space). I don’t think I have the flexibility to move the racks 15” forward, I have to keep thinking about this.
 

Ron Resnick

Site Co-Owner, Administrator
Jan 24, 2015
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It will depend in a sizable part on what cables you utilize, size, flexibility, etc...I have tried 12" and slightly less or more.
Two words "NEVER Again"; with all the power cords, interconnects, etc...behind a multi-component rack setup, particular
one in corners or alcoves the 'cramp factor' is quite high even with smaller size/girth cables. I currently have 24" behind
the racks which is a joy particularly when you take the cables I utilize into consideration with their size, rigid main sections
(with flexible ends). My advice, make it is easy on yourself now and for future choices of components, rack and cables of
all kinds; plan for 16"-24". If your rack will be mid-stage between speakers, the answer to this question directly correlates
for the most part to how far out from the walls your speakers are generally placed as welll..

Thank you for your thoughts! My racks are in an adjacent room, as I am not a fan of source equipment between speakers.
 

RogerD

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Thanks Bob...mo better.
 

RogerD

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Ron Resnick

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I did another measured "mock-up" and I can walk behind the "racks" with 12" of space between the back of the rack and the wall. It is tight, but I can walk in that channel and lean over enough to plug things in.
 

Tango

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Ron,
Get some good size boxes and make a mock size rack. You can then visualize how it will look in the room and how it will effect your entrance. I would shoot for 18 inches at least. In my zoo of snakes and equipment 30 inches is a blessing.

See your rear. Now I don’t think my wires are too messy :D.

50 cm space in the back.

1BD90F52-B23C-4A61-93F3-A6886D2AE150.jpg

Tang
 

bach_king

Member
Mar 10, 2018
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Northampton , England
See your rear. Now I don’t think my wires are too messy :D.

50 cm space in the back.

View attachment 39573

Tang



Hi Tang

Remember, whilst appearance is important, the positioning of the rack can have a material impact on the performance of the system. As well as satisfying thee aesthetic requirements the kit needs to be located in a position where standing waves are at their most benign.

I thought my room was pretty good accoustically but when I measured it I found some really nasty standing waves with peaks of +18db around 170hz. You only really notice this problem after it has been removed. I measured SPL’s at 10hz intervals from 25hz to 300hz at the current rack position, the listening position and then again at the proposed rack location. Then before committing to £1000 of investment for new LS cables and moving sockets I mocked up the new set up using sub optimal mains cabling to test the theory. Only when I had proved to my own satisfaction did I buy the cables and move the clean mains supply. It’s too easy to chase ‘fools gold’ in this hobby and waste shedloads of cash doing it!

Good luck

Kind regards

David :)
 

Tango

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Hi Tang

Remember whilst appearance is important the positioning of the rack can have a material impact on the sound of the system. As well as satisfying aesthetic requirement the kit needs to be located in a position where standing waves are at their most benign.

I thought my room was pretty good accoustically but when I measured it I found some really nasty standing waves with peaks of +18db around 170hz. You only really notice this problem after it has been removed. I measured SPL’s at 10hz intervals from 25hz
to 300hz at the current rack position, the listening position and then again at the proposed location.

Good luck

Kind regards

David ????

Hello David,

My room is L-shape. My equipments are placed close to the wall at the right leg of L, so they are not in front or between my speakers. Trade off is a long cable run...very expensive and prone to RFI.

Kind regards,
Tang
 

bach_king

Member
Mar 10, 2018
39
5
8
Northampton , England
Hi Tang

I needed 10 metre cables to make the necessary changes, so you are right it’s is expensive. However in te context of a system which may have cost many thousands of pounds it may be a small price to pay. Unless you use very exotic cables in which case it may be a non starter. Regarding your comment about RFI, in my experience that is more important with interconnects particulaly those around the record deck. I borrowed a set of long LS cables from a friendly local dealers to test the theory and bodged a mains supply enough to check it out. It is certainly not easy to do but it is very worthwhile.

Good luck whatever you decide

Kind regards

David
 
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