All Cables From One Manufacturer, or Mix and Match?
- Thread starter Ron Resnick
- Start date
There's no doubt about it.
But silver isn't silver... you can't generalize as I said before. It HAS to be UPOCC silver. All other silver wires are inferior vs UPOCC silver by a large margin. Typical 4N silver wire has many issues as others have mentioned. It can sound harsh, introduce glare, and accentuate the leading edges of notes which is the main form of "artificial detail" that people often think sounds good at first.
UPOCC silver has NONE of these downsides. The one downside it has is thin tone. This is solved in one of two ways. 1. Increase the gauge. This is what Wireworld and Siltech do with their top of the line cables. 17g runs for IC cables, so... they can easily double as SCs if needed.
And it's part of why they cost a lot. 2. Add gold as an alloying element. I do this and it provides a warmth that does not decrease resolution. This makes this wire a sort of unicorn, it has very high resolution with good warmth, extremely realistic timbre and no harshness, glare, etc... I've played with wire for well over 20 years never being satisfied. I've tried many different kinds of silver and copper wire, I've tried combining them, I've use teflon, cotton, air-tubes, nitrogen-filled air-tubes, you name it... Nothing comes close to the OCC silver/gold alloy I have custom made for my cables. This is why well over 90% of people who try my IC cables buy them.
There's no doubt about it.
But silver isn't silver... you can't generalize as I said before. It HAS to be UPOCC silver. All other silver wires are inferior vs UPOCC silver by a large margin. Typical 4N silver wire has many issues as others have mentioned. It can sound harsh, introduce glare, and accentuate the leading edges of notes which is the main form of "artificial detail" that people often think sounds good at first.
UPOCC silver has NONE of these downsides. The one downside it has is thin tone. This is solved in one of two ways. 1. Increase the gauge. This is what Wireworld and Siltech do with their top of the line cables. 17g runs for IC cables, so... they can easily double as SCs if needed.
I've played with wire for well over 20 years never being satisfied. I've tried many different kinds of silver and copper wire, I've tried combining them, I've use teflon, cotton, air-tubes, nitrogen-filled air-tubes, you name it... Nothing comes close to the OCC silver/gold alloy I have custom made for my cables. This is why well over 90% of people who try my IC cables buy them.
Most interesting. Those are my impressions of the Zyx Airy line of copper, silver and gold coil variants respectively. My cables are alloy too.
Yes Ron. I beta tested the first formulation, then came two more then finally the production version. While geometries and dielectrics were basically the same, these were four different metal mixes tried in total. B was too fast, A and C touch too pretty, nice color but too colored. The final one balanced extension and tone best. Loads of spatial cues without having images too razor sharp. I believe the new Signatures are alloyed too but Leif should confirm that. It's funny really. While I shuttle between my two temp systems here, the Ultra XLRs shuttle along with me. LOL.
True, there are good & bad examples of all types of wire but conductors do have inherent qualities irrespective of everything else, why people pick one over the other.
david
What is wrong with having imaging laser-sharp? Seems more live to me.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
Not for me. An example where it can be overbearing, again for me, are overdriven guitar amps. While I like solid images, I prefer outlines to have gradients. Not dull or soft mind you but rather varying in texture as timbre dictates.
I do not hear in the concert hall the razor-sharp, clearly-delineated images we sometimes prize on our stereo systems.
Very interesting, Jack.
Do you find the original copper conductor Signature line to have a warmer tonal balance than the Ultra?
Exactly.......most live music, weather in a concert hall, or an intimate Jazz club, has a very clean, utterly low sense of distortion, but never do I hear an extremely precise, laser beam, etched outline like focus to the musical presentation.....the almost exact opposite actually ....The music is just there, naturally presented with great tone density.....many times the sense of image outlines can be somewhat diffuse....but our visual cues can give more precision to the sense of location: ie:Focus....
.... Anyway we all perceive it differently, and as always YMMV......
CHEERS.....
Not really. The Ultra has more low level nuance, the sound is less filtered in that regard.
Shouldn't the presentation depend on the recording? Some studio recordings do produce "sharp" images and some live recordings have a more diffuse soundstage. If your system takes a studio recording with clearly defined images and blurs them that's not good. I'm not sure the opposite is possible but if it were I wouldn't want that either.
It's pretty clear to me the closer the system gets to reproducing what's on the recording the better off you are. This can be worked toward in a more systematic and objective way vs trying to make your system how you imagine live music is supposed to sound, which may be influenced by many undesirable things anyways. I'm not saying there's no room for personal preference but a focus on achieving "high fidelity" is also important imo. If high fidelity means sharp images, so be it. I can make a circuit that would dump a ton of warmth and fuzziness into the mix very easily for those who want that...
It's pretty clear to me the closer the system gets to reproducing what's on the recording the better off you are. This can be worked toward in a more systematic and objective way vs trying to make your system how you imagine live music is supposed to sound, which may be influenced by many undesirable things anyways. I'm not saying there's no room for personal preference but a focus on achieving "high fidelity" is also important imo. If high fidelity means sharp images, so be it. I can make a circuit that would dump a ton of warmth and fuzziness into the mix very easily for those who want that...
Shouldn't the presentation depend on the recording? Some studio recordings do produce "sharp" images and some live recordings have a more diffuse soundstage. If your system takes a studio recording with clearly defined images and blurs them that's not good. I'm not sure the opposite is possible but if it were I wouldn't want that either.
It's pretty clear to me the closer the system gets to reproducing what's on the recording the better off you are. This can be worked toward in a more systematic and objective way vs trying to make your system how you imagine live music is supposed to sound, which may be influenced by many undesirable things anyways. I'm not saying there's no room for personal preference but a focus on achieving "high fidelity" is also important imo. If high fidelity means sharp images, so be it. I can make a circuit that would dump a ton of warmth and fuzziness into the mix very easily for those who want that...
Most certainly however I don't think I've actually come across a recording in any genre, including test recordings where "razor sharp" seemed to be a priority of the artists and production team. Movie SFX yes, music not so much. I would like to have some in my library. Recommendations would be very illustrative and thus much appreciated.
There's no doubt about it.
But silver isn't silver... you can't generalize as I said before. It HAS to be UPOCC silver. All other silver wires are inferior vs UPOCC silver by a large margin. Typical 4N silver wire has many issues as others have mentioned. It can sound harsh, introduce glare, and accentuate the leading edges of notes which is the main form of "artificial detail" that people often think sounds good at first.
UPOCC silver has NONE of these downsides. The one downside it has is thin tone. This is solved in one of two ways. 1. Increase the gauge. This is what Wireworld and Siltech do with their top of the line cables. 17g runs for IC cables, so... they can easily double as SCs if needed.
I've played with wire for well over 20 years never being satisfied. I've tried many different kinds of silver and copper wire, I've tried combining them, I've use teflon, cotton, air-tubes, nitrogen-filled air-tubes, you name it... Nothing comes close to the OCC silver/gold alloy I have custom made for my cables. This is why well over 90% of people who try my IC cables buy them.
I am one of those over 90%. I love Dave's cables, and also have his SMSG speaker cables now for the same reasons I have the D4 interconnects. All resolution, without unnatural edge, and with realistic timbre. Massed orchestral violins, for example, are fantastically served by these cables.
Here is my review of the D4 interconnect:
http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?22942-ZenWave-Audio-D4-Interconnect
In the meantime my system has tremendously gained in resolution through upgrades (for one of them, see below), and I feel the things I said in the review hold more than ever. It is now obvious to me that these cables are the last ones I'll ever need.
I use the D4 interconnects for my newly acquired JL Audio Fathom 112v2 subwoofers too. Unamplified bass (heavy drums or orchestral double basses for example) usually sounds much blacker, darker on a system than live where, especially in a large hall, the bass, while weighty and impactful often beyond what systems can reproduce, frequently also sounds airier and less congested. Bass from unamplified music in my system now also has a good amount of that airy quality coupled with deep impact (just listened again to a large-scale piece for six percussionists and mixed choir). And black bass is still black.
Incredible cables in the absolute sense, and incredible value for the money.
***
As for other cables in my system, power chords are stock, and the digital AES/EBU cable is MIT.
Ok... There's one Boards of Canada track where they create this soundscape and parts keep getting added and they all line up in front of you. I think off the top of my head it's Chromakey Dreamcoat but I'll have to listen to be sure. edit: It's not that one.. it's a fun track though. I'll have to listen and see if I can find it.
Beats Antique's newer album Contraption II is pretty good. Beats in general is produced well, and sounds best played very loud.
IMO lots of electronica is carefully produced and has well defined images. Boards is more ethereal in general, not always a great example of precise imaging, but Infected Mushroom, Opiou, Tosca, Amon Tobin are worth checking out if you haven't already.
But my point really is that faithfulness to the recording is an important goal, and this faithfulness may include hearing well defined images in recordings that contain them.
Ok... There's one Boards of Canada track where they create this soundscape and parts keep getting added and they all line up in front of you. I think off the top of my head it's Chromakey Dreamcoat but I'll have to listen to be sure. edit: It's not that one.. it's a fun track though. I'll have to listen and see if I can find it.
Beats Antique's newer album Contraption II is pretty good. Beats in general is produced well, and sounds best played very loud.
IMO lots of electronica is carefully produced and has well defined images. Boards is more ethereal in general, not always a great example of precise imaging, but Infected Mushroom, Opiou, Tosca, Amon Tobin are worth checking out if you haven't already.
But my point really is that faithfulness to the recording is an important goal, and this faithfulness may include hearing well defined images in recordings that contain them.
I haven't heard of most of these Dave. Thanks. I will check them out.
Some years ago I moved from Nordost Valhalla speaker cables to Entreq Konstantin speaker cables and at the the same time tried an Entreq Silver Minimus on the DCS Puccini I had.
To my ears the Entreq cables sound much more natural and musical and since then have moved the whole system to Entreq. The last upgrade towards the end of last year saw an upgrade to Apollo speaker cables and Atlantis dual AES on the DCS Scarlatti Transport/Paganini DAC Scarlatti Clock.I was delighted with the improvement in the sound quality. More resolution and tonality,
I should get back two Apollo i/cs and Atlantis and Apollo dual AES and grounding cables which are being upgraded to Infinity. The upgrade is to the plugs.
Two conclusions I have drawn are that it does make sense to use cables from the same manufacturer and that the terminations/plugs and not just the cable itself matters.
Once the Infinity are installed and settled in I'll post my impressions.
To my ears the Entreq cables sound much more natural and musical and since then have moved the whole system to Entreq. The last upgrade towards the end of last year saw an upgrade to Apollo speaker cables and Atlantis dual AES on the DCS Scarlatti Transport/Paganini DAC Scarlatti Clock.I was delighted with the improvement in the sound quality. More resolution and tonality,
I should get back two Apollo i/cs and Atlantis and Apollo dual AES and grounding cables which are being upgraded to Infinity. The upgrade is to the plugs.
Two conclusions I have drawn are that it does make sense to use cables from the same manufacturer and that the terminations/plugs and not just the cable itself matters.
Once the Infinity are installed and settled in I'll post my impressions.
I like guitar strings, cymbals, bells and triangle to sound live, not contrived. If there is any "gradient", it is the reflections off the venue walls.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio
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