All Cables From One Manufacturer, or Mix and Match?

Ron Resnick · Feb 23, 2018

Manufacturers invariably advise audiophiles to purchase an entire set of wire products (interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, phono wires) from then, arguing that this maximizes sound quality and avoids adulterating the system's signal paths with inferior cables from some other manufacturer.

Is this true, or are the manufacturers just trying to maximize sales? (It reminds me of the fellow who goes into the store looking only for a new jacket and comes out of the store with a new jacket and shirt and belt and tie and shoes.)

One could argue that if a cable has any sort of sonic signature, then using cables only from a particular manufacturer multiples that sonic signature, and creates some deviation from neutrality.

Based on a particular component's input impedance and output impedance, might it not make sense to evaluate different wires between each pair of connected components? Why should we assume that the optimal wire for each pair of connected components is the wire from a single cable manufacturer?

By selecting all cables from one manufacturer are we achieving some system synergy which mixing and matching cables forfeits?

Do you have all cables from one manufacturer? If yes, why?

Do you mix and match cables? If yes, why?

KeithR · Feb 23, 2018

I think many people have the same manufacturer ICs and SCs, but vary on PCs and/or digital.

BlueFox · Feb 23, 2018

Good question. I use Shunyata because ever since my first Venom power cord years ago I have been impressed with the performance. The price/performance ratio is also excellent, at least for me. I feel from an IC cable perspective that Shunyata strives to have the same signal come out of their cable as what went into it. I would suspect mixing vendors in this area is almost guaranteed to introduce some type of change in the signal.

I also agree it is in the manufactures interest to sell as many of their cables as possible.

I have a question about your example. What are you buying in a clothes store that needs to be censored?

Ron Resnick said:
(It reminds me of the fellow who goes into the store looking only for a new jacket and comes out of the store with a new jacket and shirt and belt and tie and shoes.)

ack · Feb 23, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
All Cables From One Manufacturer, or Mix and Match?

Here's a rather obvious answer: If all from from the same manufacturer, then why not the rest of your equipment, to the best degree possible? Therefore, a more interesting question is: why are most of us mixing and matching equipment?

jfrech · Feb 24, 2018

I think you can achieve superior results either way. And I have done so. Mix n match takes more time and more careful listening on the buyers part. Also allows you to go to the used market...

I do think interconnects and speaker should be first thing to match.

Certain brands, like my current Transparent Audio, do make it very compelling to wire the whole system. Everything does seem to lock in better and no worry about the outcome...

microstrip · Feb 24, 2018

It depends a lot on the system and the cable brand. If the pieces of equipment match perfectly and you are not using cables to compensate mismatches in system, or equipment you do not like but can not exchange, I usually prefer to play with the same brand and type in the whole system.

Also some brands, such as Transparent Audio are tuned for complete systems - in principle you should not use the SP cables unless you have an IC following the source in the system.

I usually had power and signal cables from different brands, recently found that using Transparent Audio power cables with their SP and IC's was a real improvement in my system.

More than ever, IMHO and YMMV!

Sablon Audio · Feb 24, 2018

There is no particular need to have a complete loom from a single brand. Many manufacturers are perceived to have specific strengths in their model range ie say in digital cables, and that expertise may not be replicated in their other products. What is important however is to try avoid having any weak links in the chain.

One area where I have observed some synergy from matching is having the same power cords in the same lengths and I do wonder if this may be to do with star earthing via the same ground line impedances. This approach seems to give better musical timing.

JimmyS · Feb 24, 2018

I took the component by component approach to understand how each would be impacted by different cables. I keep a few different cables around to help me define what the component seems to like, and my local dealer has been great in allowing me to bring home various offerings to try as well.

Given that approach and my current set of components, my interconnects and speaker cables are all from the same company and I have a mix of two companies for power cords.

DaveC · Feb 24, 2018

It can work to mix and match but not always. An example...

I offer both UPOCC copper and silver/gold alloy cables. I would never recommend my customers go with copper ICs and silver SCs, the reason why is the copper cables are not as resolving. So, if you use a copper IC that sounds nice, sweet and smooth, but may be lacking in resolution, and then use SCs that are meant to be as clear and resolving as possible then you're wasting a ton of money on SCs. However, it works well to go the other way and many do because SCs don't lose quite as much vs ICs, so you can have silver ICs that retain resolution followed by copper SCs that do lose resolution, just not nearly as much as ICs. This doesn't mean the silver/gold SCs won't make a difference, of course they will, but not nearly as much of a difference if you use lesser ICs.

IMO, it's the same with other cables too, if you have reference level signal cables and then go with "voiced" PCs that add a ton of warmth your signal cables are largely wasted on properly conveying the warmth of the power cables and not the music.

So, you need to decide where you're going. Either choose cables that sound how you want them to and stick with it for all of your gear, or choose cables that are meant to be as neutral as possible. IMO, it can be a bad idea to mix philosophies/cable types and this applies to cables within brand's own lineups, mine included.

It's not hard to determine this from listening, once you identify all the different flavors cables can add you can choose the ones with the flavor you want or ones with the least amount of added flavor. Of course I promote the latter as that's the definition of high fidelity. Many do not prefer high fidelity or they define it in their own personal way, lol... However, the price you pay for a "voiced" cable is reduced resolution and lower fidelity.

jeff1225 · Feb 24, 2018

I thought the copper cables lack resolution theory was thoroughly debunked many years ago.

DaveC · Feb 24, 2018

jeffrey_t said:
I thought the copper cables lack resolution theory was thoroughly debunked many years ago.

Nope. But you also can't generalize... I was being specific in my claims.

My UPOCC copper litz cables are about as resolving as typical 4N silver. Some company's copper cables are more resolving than mine, like Jorma, so these are actually more resolving vs most less expensive silver cables.

However, I have never heard a copper cable of any sort that can match UPOCC silver which is 6N+... impurities are so small we are unable to measure them and the wire is also manufactured with no grain boundaries in the conductor. This is what I use, along with a silver/gold alloy manufactured using the same process, and it is much different vs typical silver wire.

jeff1225 · Feb 24, 2018

DaveC said:
Nope. But you also can't generalize... I was being specific in my claims.

My UPOCC copper litz cables are about as resolving as typical 4N silver. Some company's copper cables are more resolving than mine, like Jorma, so these are actually more resolving vs most less expensive silver cables.

However, I have never heard a copper cable of any sort that can match UPOCC silver which is 6N+... impurities are so small we are unable to measure them and the wire is also manufactured with no grain boundaries in the conductor. This is what I use, along with a silver/gold alloy manufactured using the same process, and it is much different vs typical silver wire.

Great explanation thank you.

jtinn · Feb 24, 2018

Ron Resnick said:
Manufacturers invariably advise audiophiles to purchase an entire set of wire products (interconnects, speaker cables, power cords, phono wires) from then, arguing that this maximizes sound quality and avoids adulterating the system's signal paths with inferior cables from some other manufacturer.

Is this true, or are the manufacturers just trying to maximize sales? (It reminds me of the fellow who goes into the store looking only for a new jacket and comes out of the store with a new jacket and shirt and belt and tie and shoes.)

One could argue that if a cable has any sort of sonic signature, then using cables only from a particular manufacturer multiples that sonic signature, and creates some deviation from neutrality.

Based on a particular component's input impedance and output impedance, might it not make sense to evaluate different wires between each pair of connected components? Why should we assume that the optimal wire for each pair of connected components is the wire from a single cable manufacturer?

By selecting all cables from one manufacturer are we achieving some system synergy which mixing and matching cables forfeits?

Do you have all cables from one manufacturer? If yes, why?

Do you mix and match cables? If yes, why?

The only reason not to mix and match cables is because you like all the cables from one manufacture and how it sounds.Anybody who tells you different really is just trying to sell you something.

If you take one cable and put it in a system with all sorts of different other cables, and it sounds better it is because the cable most probably is better. By changing all of them to that same cable all you’ve done is just gone to a better cable, it’s not due to using an entire loom which is synergistic with all the other cables.

If someone were to ask me would it be OK to just use one pair of Evolution Acoustics cables in a system I would say absolutely. If they ask if it would sound better with all Evolution cables, I would say yes but only because I like our cables better than anything else I have heard.

Ron Resnick · Feb 24, 2018

jeffrey_t said:
Great explanation thank you.

+1

DaveC · Feb 24, 2018

jtinn said:
The only reason not to mix and match cables is because you like all the cables from one manufacture and how it sounds.Anybody who tells you different really is just trying to sell you something.

If you take one cable and put it in a system with all sorts of different other cables, and it sounds better it is because the cable most probably is better. By changing all of them to that same cable all you’ve done is just gone to a better cable, it’s not due to using an entire loom which is synergistic with all the other cables.

If someone were to ask me would it be OK to just use one pair of Evolution Acoustics cables in a system I would say absolutely. If they ask if it would sound better with all Evolution cables, I would say yes but only because I like our cables better than anything else I have heard.

Wait a minute! I said something different!

While I do enjoy selling my products, as does everyone with products to sell including yourself I'd presume, my explanation of my philosophy certainly left the door open for personal preference, and I stated that I have a specific goal in mind that may not be compatible with how others' want their system to sound.

I just provided a detailed explanation of how synergy can be an issue with cables, you simply said if one sounds better it's because it's a better cable. I've seen and experienced exactly the opposite many times. Often, people prefer inferior cables because of their own personal preferences, you can say this is a "better cable" for them but then that means you think cable performance is entirely subjective, which is absolutely false.

In a perfect world with perfect components synergy wouldn't matter. The closer you get to neutral the less it matters. But this is fantasy land and nothing is neutral so synergy often does matter. And I've seen plenty of folks chasing their tails over it...

ddk · Feb 24, 2018

I haven't found a cable manufacturer that excels at making everything, also since every cable has a signature I found that full looms of any wire will only multiply their signature and turn it into a strong coloration. Fine if that's what one wants.

david

Mike Lavigne · Feb 24, 2018

i'm likewise agnostic about signal cables. mixing has always been fine. in my case, my darTZeel electronics do perform optimally with the 'zeel' 50 ohm interface. but I use two brand types of 50 ohm 'zeel' in my system. and other interconnect brands have come in and out of my system without issue.

OTOH I think that using common sounding power cords can be beneficial for system synergy and cohesiveness. but I don't have strong feelings about this. in my case, I use 10 Absolute Fidelity power cords all with the Furutech NCF plugs, and a pair of Evolution Acoustics TRPC (triple run power cords) for my amps. with my Equi=tech balanced isolation transformer I wanted a neutral power cord I could have a consistent type sound. and with such an involved system with multiple components I did not want lots of variables from power cords.

Absolute Fidelity does make different versions for amps, sources, and motors to optimize each purpose.

not yet figured out the power cord answer for the ML3's. just have some generic one's on there now.

kevinkwann · Feb 24, 2018

ddk said:
I haven't found a cable manufacturer that excels at making everything, also since every cable has a signature I found that full looms of any wire will only multiply their signature and turn it into a strong coloration. Fine if that's what one wants.

david

+1!

andromedaaudio · Feb 24, 2018

ddk said:
I haven't found a cable manufacturer that excels at making everything, also since every cable has a signature I found that full looms of any wire will only multiply their signature and turn it into a strong coloration. Fine if that's what one wants.

david

But one needs a cable , what do you use in your system if I might ask you also seem to use a more no nonse approach , i use cheap transparent link 100 s , plus multistrand copper /silver coated Teflon insulated wire as speaker wire , also as internal wire in the speakers.

And if one was gone invest in cables , where can one make a rather big diff if any , powercables ?

DaveC · Feb 24, 2018

Yup, this can happen, but not always... It's like loading up an amp with all the same type of resistor... soon your amp sounds a lot like the resistor you chose! Better to use different ones and not have so much of a single contribution, but in this case synergy absolutely does matter. It's almost like a jigsaw puzzle but you have to hear it to know what piece to place next...

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